Pentwater 7/21 AM, 8 for 9

[Mega Byte]

Pentwater 7/21 AM, 8 for 9

Fished by my dad and two of my boys for a morning trip.  Started setting lines around 7 and fished until noon.  Things slowed up just after 10 am.  We worked water between 95 and 170 feet deep on an East/West troll and took fish both directions.

Ended up with 2 kings (15#, 12#), 2 coho and 4 steelhead.

• A white paddle and pickled sunshine fly down 70 took fish in 130 fow and 145 fow.
• A double orange crush on a 100 Cu took a steelhead on a 158 fow
• A blue haze paddle and meat on a 300 Cu took a stealhead in 158 fow (it was a double with the 100 Cu above).  
• Had a big rip on a mixed veggie spoon on a rigger down 65 in 138 fow.  That was the fish we lost.
• The hot bait for us was a standard size Natural Born Killer (NBK) spoon (regular size) on a 250 copper.  It took 4 fish.  (I can't recall all of the depths for this bait, but I know we did get 1 king in 98 fow.)

Based on some of the other discussions on this forum, I did a few things different for this trip that I think helped us out.  First, I put fluorocarbon leaders on everything except my diver rods.  (Thanks @Boomer for starting that thread.)  I started with 20 Berkeley Vanish, but after buying it found a lot of people the weren't happy with it.  So I never even tried it.  Instead, I upgraded to 20 pound Seaguar.  I was breaking a lot of knots tying these leaders on and I just wasn't happy with it.  I was wetting them really good like you have to with fluoro, and tying them slow to avoid the fluoro burn, but I got way too many breaks during my testing to feel confident about using this line.  Once I did get a knot tied, it looked solid, but it made me nervous because of all the previous breaks.  I thought this line could even more get expensive if I start losing fish and setups because of breaks.  Plus, it was breaking when I lifted my 19# cannonballs, so I didn't have a lot of faith in it.  I will probably add it to the end of my walleye poles.  

So I did more research.  Seaguar seemed to get a lot of love from people.  The vast majority of people were very happy with it.  P-Line was popular too.  I opted for 30 pound Gamma Clear Leader Material.  It had a breaking strength of 41 pounds.  Most fluorocarbons I looked at had an actual breaking strength (in test studies) that was 80% to 90% of what the line was actually rated for.  Granted, most of these studies were done with lighter (10# and 15#) test line.  It seemed to be less of an issue with higher pound lines.  It's not fair to compare a 30# Gamma with a 20# Seaguar.  Maybe I would have been happy with the 30# Seaguar.  I ended up with the Gamma and I was very happy with the knot strength and breaking strength.  I never broke a knot when testing.  We didn't get into any huge fish today.  The kings at 15 pounds and 12 pounds were our biggest fish.  But, everything held together just fine.

I read in some other forums where guys thought fluorocarbon was a waste of money.   A lot of people said "salmon aren't leader shy".  Sure, I'll buy that, at least some of the time.  But I think we have a lot more fish following our lures that don't bite, rather than the ones that do.  I've seen this on a lot of underwater videos where the salmon will trail the bait, but never hit it.  I heard of a story about a charter captain who added cameras to his lines so people could see what was going on live under the water.  What a great idea!  He ended up taking them down because so many fish were trailing, investigating and not hitting.  People kept asking, "why aren't they hitting?" and they were wondering if he was any good at his job.  Those are the fish I was after.  If fluorocarbon could help me close the deal with some of those less aggressive fish, great.  But, it needs to do that with good knot integrity and without breaking after a hookup.  Hopefully we'll see how the Gamma holds up with bigger fish, but I was very happy with how it performed today.

The other thing I did different was add a color of lead core to the end of my coppers based on a recommendation by @The Greek .  I used 27# TufLine MicroLead which claims to be "30% smaller and 3 times stronger".  Man, trying to tie a knot with that was tricky.  I finally found something worked well - consistently well - and I was happy with how the Pb performed.  The 250 Cu that took 4 fish today actually had 2 colors of Pb after the copper (by accident), and then the fluorocarbon leader.  There are a lot of knots in that setup, but I was confident everything would hold based on my trials and testing of the various knots.

So we had good action this morning.  Most of the morning we fished with only 6 lines in the water because we kept pulling fish in and I could get the other lines out.  (It took the kids a while to get some of these fish in, especially on that 250 Cu.)  I can't prove it with such a small sample size, but I think the Pb and fluorocarbon helped my cause today.  I did put a couple of wire divers out and they didn't get touched all morning.

And photos for @Martin1950:

 

 

 

[Mega Byte]

Just noticed this post reads totally different on the app than on the website. The 'at mentions' mess up the app.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Great Lakes Fisherman Mobile App

[littleboat]

Looks like a great time and memories! 

[Martin1950]

L.O.L.  I always enjoy seeing young fisherman fighting fish.  And the fish porn is a bonus, thanks.

Martin

[overthelimit]

Try using a San Diego jam for a fluorocarbon knot, especially on leader material . Seagaur has been pretty good for me. 

[The Greek]

This was an EPIC post. Sorry I didn't see it sooner.  Your explorations of the various techniques is EXACTLY what both working and retired charter captains do best (besides outfish the rec fisherman): the practice of detailed precision.  The use of Pb at the end of the Cu gives you just a little bit of sway in the line that activates the spoon. Result? Motion in a spoon that may not otherwise have any; enticing a fish to strike. Hell, they don't have to eat it; they just gotta inhale it.  Try using some of John Kings spoons. You won't believe the action of those lexan spoons in the water. The gold Orange Crush and Alewife SUV are amazing.

Best part about your photos is the use of life jackets on the boys: BRAVO. I see lots of kids in pictures w/o the jackets on and I just cringe.

Tight lines and safe returns to port; I'll be up your way all next week (of Aug 1 to Aug 4) chasin tail out in the deep.

[Mega Byte]

17 minutes ago, The Greek said:

I'll be up your way all next week (of Aug 1 to Aug 4) chasin tail out in the deep.

We plan to go out Aug 4 & 5.  Let me know how you do.

[The Greek]

10-4. I will be posting as much as I can.  WiFi will be a problem as we'll  be staying at MI state campground called Orchard Park north of Manistee.

Going to be fishing off Manistee  ala Captain John King style by starting in afternoon and fishing till after dark. His BTI meat rigs such as Frog and Salmon Buster in the dark waters are fabulous. Stay tuned to this channel.