Trolling Fast

[jdh]

I've been experimenting a bit when the first light bit dies by putting out dreamweaver superslims and speeding up to around 4 mph at the ball. (Only tried this on sunny days). I've had decent success picking up steelhead, coho, some kings, as well as a few couple lakers. I've also gotten a few nice kings on a 300 or 400 copper pulling a spin doctor with meat at that speed too!

So my questions are as follows:

Are there any other larger spoons I can run that might get me a few more king bites?

If I were to add in some flasher-fly combinations - do you think a longer leader to the fly - perhaps 4 or 5 times the length of the paddle would work? (Probably would only run the 8" SD's at this speed)

Let me know if you have any tips for this high speed trolling. Thanks!

-JDH

[Rascal Trophy Fishing]

JDH, there are a lot of variables/conditions to consider regarding speed in general. Like fish being targeted, temp. of water, current, type of day, depth of water, speed at surface/ball, uptroll/downtroll, etc.. Not an exact science, stick with higher speeds when slower ones don't catch. The best overall foundation for all-condition speed on the surface has been 2.2-2.4mph fyi over the past years. Start with that, then work speed accordingly. Watch rigger wires and divers to not pull them out of releases.

[Just Hook'n]

4mph at the ball sounds like steelhead speed, but if you are catching fish, then keep doing it...I wonder though if your probe is calibrated...what is your speed over ground on your gps?

[gmfishon]

guys i think he understands and has the speed thing down he is catching fish and only trying what he describes above when the fish shut off. wich i give credit for i think most would say ok the morning bite shut off the fish are getting into a negative mood lets SLOW down. good for trying something different. i think longer leads on the paddles would be better for going that fast. i am not sure how fast the regular size warrior spoons will troll but i know the flutter spoons they make will approach that speed range maybe look at prokings also.

[jdh]

guys i think he understands and has the speed thing down he is catching fish and only trying what he describes above when the fish shut off. wich i give credit for i think most would say ok the morning bite shut off the fish are getting into a negative mood lets SLOW down. good for trying something different. i think longer leads on the paddles would be better for going that fast. i am not sure how fast the regular size warrior spoons will troll but i know the flutter spoons they make will approach that speed range maybe look at prokings also.

gmfishon has it right. I've been speeding way up once the bite slows down. I'll give the regular pro-kings a try as well as look into some flutter spoons. I have some spoons that they use out west behind flashers as well. I know this type of fishing is more geared towards shallower colder water.

If I try it again this year I will put out a few spin doctors with 36" and 48" leads to see if that does something.

BTW having a 10lb + steelhead or king hit at 4 mph is quite a thrill.

Thanks for the replies.

[Just Hook'n]

Longer leads will catch more fish no matter what speed you are going.

I don't think I run anything less than 48-54 inches on my flies.

Factory leads are way too short (IMO), especially for big boards.

You have GOT to be having fun catching kings that fast....do you have to slow down to land them?

[jdh]

You do have to slow down to get them in, but I have also noticed that I get some bites as soon as I speed back up after landing a fish.

[Long Lines]

No expert on this either...for sure, but the last two weekends....kids and kings and July 4th we have struggled to catch silver fish. Some last minute decisions to speed way up from 2.0-2.8 to 3.1 -3.8 running Mag Streaks like Blue whale and Black Screw Ball, MS Blue Flounder Pounder, and Pro King's Sneaky Pete have produced some mid morning to early afternoon kings in the 10-14 lb range and steelhead in the 7-10 lb range. Now we're not lighting the world on fire, but then again no one has been really.

I intend to try the same strategy when fishing picks up to add another 2-4 fish to the cooler after the early morning bite slows.

Interesting though that JDH has fish hitting flasher flies and meat rigs at that speed. Will have to give that a try. Open to anything out of the ordinary based on our last few outings.

[Rascal Trophy Fishing]

Methinks most of you guys think one speed is always good. It's not. The fact that you "target certain species" of fish from a certain depth and current/direction, is the important, and relative factor to consider. I know, it's not "rocket science", right? That's Exactly the point/ factor I offer up for consideration I would hope. Consider ALL the factors that represent your fishing that particular day, and adjust accordingly so you CATCH, not just wash the lures offered up.

[FishKnocker]

Hi JDH - you are definitely on to something, after the 1st light bight, the fish are still there, possibly going negative or hugging the bottom - so trolling fast to trigger an instinctive strike makes sense - we've had luck w/ our Magnum size glow spoons 8:30-10:00am, way after sunup, but down deep & trolling 2.9-3.2, we haven't tried 4mph but if we could maybe run a heavier ball to keep it down? Okay, good luck, thanks for sharing the idea -

FishKnocker

http://www.gl-tackle.com/

[Lobi]

I say ditto to many of the preceding comments.

You can never troll faster than a fish can swim, if he wants it, he'll get it.

Your hits upon speeding back up after a slow-down make a lot of sense. There are lots of cool salmon videos of the fish following a bait for a long long time just checking it out. As soon as it speeds up (getting away) they hit it. This also happens to your outside boards that speed up on a turn. Why not slow down (like when fighting a fish) when you are not getting bit just so you can speed back up again. One more thought, remember how much action your long (copper n lead-core) lines have with speed changes. they should get bit too.

[Chasin]

One comment on which spoons run best at high speeds. The answer is any of them. You can take some extra lead out of your cores and make a couple wraps around your trebles. The extra weight on the end of the spoon will make it run true at higher speeds. We have been doing this for years on both Mag spoons and dodgers. You can place two 1/4 oz split shot behind a dodger and it will "kick " and not spin at speeds to 4mph. Been using that trick for a long time when looking to find scattered schools of fish.

[jdh]

Great tip Chasin! I'll give it a shot sometime. I've been fishing slow with meat lately, but if I fish for steelies and next years salmon later this fall, I'll probably be speeding things up again.

[heaterman]

Have you ever tried a regular old Daredevil spoon?

[jdh]

I haven't. But I do have some in my pike fishing box. I'll try it.

I gave up on the salmon this past Sunday am and managed 5 steelies and 1 coho going 3.6 mph. Most of the steelies were caught in 65 degree water too.

[heaterman]

How deep were the steelies and what did they hit?

[jdh]

See my report in the Lake Michigan section:

http://www.greatlakesfisherman.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36980

[jdh]

My observations from this summer:

Spoons/Lures:

After the morning bite slows down, speeding up with superslim spoons run in the 3.6 - 4 mph range (probe) has really helped put several more fish in the box, and has saved a few fishing trips from ending up with very few fish.

Superslims work great at high speeds but what about other spoons? I've tried a variety of other spoons in the 3.6 to 4 mph range, but not had any luck. however, I have gotten BLL, Silverstreak & Moonshine lures to be productive up to 3.4 mph or so.

I've occasionally run a flasher-fly or a meat rig fast, and had luck on the meat rig, but nothing on flasher-fly combos. I did check on my last trip and noticed that at fast speed the spin doctor rotation really tightens up (smaller circles). I also noticed that in order to get the right action on a fly, the leader would have to be shorter than normal. Next time out I'll try running a few shorter leader lengths to the fly and report my results. Based on what I saw a 14" to 18" leader might be about right. 22" or longer and the fly was just dragging along.

Colors:

Orange has not worked well near up high since the water warmed above 60 degrees. I still would run at least 1 orange lure though.

Greens & Yellows / Mixed Veggies / Jager Bomb up high, with greens & blues mid range & longer leadcores & up to 300 copper. Blues, purples, & black lures on the riggers deeper than 60 feet & on 300 to 400 coppers.

LEMON ICE - Killer spoon this year on sunny days on a 100, 150, & 200 copper - best luck on the 200 copper. Also occasionally worked on riggers - mostly down deep (but I never really ran it up high on the rigger).

RASPBERRY DOLPHIN - Took a fish almost every trip I put it out. Riggers deeper than 70 feet.

Species:

Steelies are the most common, but when I was around kings & coho I would get them too. Possibly my biggest king this year came on a raspberry dolphin superslim down 90 on the rigger in 180 fow. Also surprisingly to me many of the lakers I got this year came on the fast program. Most of the salmon came on the riggers or 300 & 400 coppers.

Delivery Method:

COPPER & LEADCORE: 100, 150, 200, 300, & 400 copper were almost always out there.

3 color (water below 60 degrees)

5 color, 7 color, 10 color

Riggers run deep - 65 feet down or deeper - remember at fast speeds there is a decent amount of blowback. Picked up a few fish running the balls down 110-140 feet (who knows how deep they actually got), but the best combo was 1 at 85 ft & 1 @95 feet. Free & fixed sliders also took multiple fish.

Divers tended to pull too hard, but I did catch a few fish while running the regular size slide divers.

Trolling Direction / Plan:

If I started the morning in 70-100 fow, I would pull lines and run out to 180 fow and setup out there.

If I started the morning in 100-140 fow, I would just keep travelling out on my best troll direction of the morning. I picked up several fish between 140 & 200, but the best fishing was often out past 200.

If I had 1 bite here and there I would keep going. If I had a few bites nearby I would circle around after about 10 minutes without a bite and troll right back through where I got the fish.

Best troll direction if I got on top of the fish - any direction. When looking for fish, the best direction was NW or SW.

Well, I hope this helps some people out - I know this website has helped me out tremendously.

Tight lines everybody.

-jdh

[jdh]

I experimented with the 8" spin doctors & flies today travelling from 3.5 - 4 mph and confirmed my suspicions that a shorter leader would provide a bit more action. 14" to 16" leaders provided good action to the fly. I didn't run any while fishing though so I'm not sure if the fish would agree with me! If there are a few kings around that I know of I'll try running a couple with the shorter leads and see what they pick up.

[AllenW]

Fairly new to great lakes fishing, but it seems "Change" might be one of the key words, along with speed.

Been using my ITroll to automatically change speeds, it will run for x amount of time at a set speed then either increase or decrease your speed for x amount of time, depending on how you program it.

It won't do both yet so what I do is run at say 1.8 mph for 10 mins, then go to 2.8 for a couple mins then back to 1.8, occasionally I'll hit the idle button and let the boat almost stop and then back to set speed.

It seems that when the speed changes are happening we catch more fish.

I haven't tried faster yet, but after this thread I will, thanks.

Merry Christmas btw.

Al