Help with sonar purchase

[dballock17]

I looked through mutiple of the threads but i still have a few questions.

First I an trying to decide what brand suits my needs. I fish lake Michigan only. 27ft boat. I think i only need downscan, but the 360 degree sonar seems interesting but not sure if it would work for water depths up to 200ft. I am willing to spend between $1000 to $2000.

Second, Should I be looking at the chartplotter combos or should I Purchase a chartplotter then buy a Sonar unit seperate.

Third I have looked at the Humming bird sonars which seem to have 1000rms and 8000watt peak power. seems pretty good since i have been told all I need is about 250rms. I compared it to lowrance which has been highly recommended but only has 250rms but has 30000peak. Thanks for all input.

[mattmishler]

I would look at raymarine also, we have a C120 and most of the time the screen is split 50/50 with sonar and GPS, it is also radar capable and the tri screen is not to bad. Dont have anything bad about hbirds, and know guys that have lots of HDS and that like them. I would not worry about the 360 scan, i dont think it would be a need for trolling apparatus.

[dballock17]

I will take a look, thanks for the input.

[RedRider]

I'll throw my .02 in and recommend you talk to Frank at Calumet marine looking at a Garmin. I have a 740S w airmarP66 transducer from him and couldn't be happier.

Best price at the time as well.

[Just Hook'n]

We absolutely love our Furuno unit...

My biggest recommendation - don't skimp on the transducer.

Get a good through hull unit - spend some money on it.

Then whatever screen you get will be that much more effective for you.

[killerbe20]

The Humminbird 360 requires a big goofy transducer that hangs off the back of the boat. I also do not know how effective it would be trolling.

I will second Matt's Raymarine recommendation. I have had some form of Raymarine unit for nearly ten years. Just completed a complete electronics upgrade, twice actually in the last year, and coming back to Raymarine after trying a competitor. Their top tier models may be out of your price range by the time you add in a quality transducer but they have some really nice mid level and entry level units. I have seen and used almost all the manufacturers except Garmin and think Raymarine's digital sonar with their high resolution screens are the best I have seen.

The unit you decide on will really come down to which one you like the best and which one offers the features you desire. Without a doubt your transducer will dictate how well which ever unit you decide on performs. Transducer placement and hull design will be the biggest factor. Airmar makes nearly all the transducers on the market with different plugs for different manufacturers. In reality Lake Michigan fishing does not require a 1kw transducer, a 600 watt transducer will surface just fine. Most Airmar's 600watt transducers are the same element with different housing and mounting styles. That is where choosing the correct style transducer and placement com into play.

[SeaCatMich]

In my opinion and experience 250w is not enough power. Yes it will let you see bottom in 200 FOW but to pickup bait fish, rigger weights, and thermoclines on the Great Lakes you need 500 or 600w.

The only potential use I see for the 360* scan would be in spring or offshore for steelhead when the fish are high in the water column. If you fished Erie or Sag Bay for walleye I could see it being used more too. I would spend the money on a better overall unit.

Personally I'd go with separate fishfinder and GPS units. While today's electronics are quite reliable, if there is a problem with a combo unit you loose both functions while it is being repaired.

My boat is equipped with Raymarine electronics as well -- although a little older. It is the first generation of the DSM technology and I am extremely satisfied with it. My boat has 3 screens (console, stern, bow) that use the Raymarine network to be able to display any of the available functions (sonar, chart plotting, radar...) on any of them. I have a separate Standard Horizon GPS chart plotter but use NMEA to feed the data to the Raymarine system. The bigger the screen, the better. I love my 7" displays. In the price range you have outlined, I would research the new chirp technology units. From what I see it looks very good and pricing is now in the range for recreational anglers.

[Just Hook'n]

Capt Keeran is right...we have a 600 W Transducer (sorry I forgot that part).

The 1k will shoot right through the bottom of the sand in close and may be far too much for lake michigan. 600W is awesome for picking up details even out deep.

[killerbe20]

Most units these days are going to be at least dual function if not complete multifunction including adding radar, sirius weather etc. I prefer the clean look of less units and flush mounted but thats personal preference. I do also think that throwing down that much cash at least having the option to add on to it would be a bonus. I have two multifunction units networked together with the same capabilities and each has independent GPS. I agree that it would be bad to have your one and only unit down and in the shop but I tend not to buy a product anticipating it being broken. If I was going to go with a stand alone unit, Furuno would be my only choice as not many manufacturers make high end dedicated units anymore.

CHIRP is an outstanding technology. I wish I could have afforded going that route with my upgrade. The problem many have been facing is the entry level units have not lived up the the hype that the big dogs have shown. Again this could very well be an issue with the transducer quality. Another issue has been the beam width capabilities and choosing the right transducer. This has been discussed at great lengths on thehulltruth.com including some awesome screen shots comparing CHIRP vs traditional broadband sonar.

[killerbe20]

just one of many great threads regarding sonar and transducers

http://www.thehulltruth.com/marine-electronics-forum/559165-600-w-1kw-transducer.html

[SUPERTRAMP]

I know what works for me, I have a Humminbird 858cdi,50 kHz transducer good signal to all the depths we fish, also has down image for shallow water perch, It has lake map included and works good with the split screen. Cost about $900.00. If I wanted to go larger screen would probably go to Furuno.

[dballock17]

Thankyou all. this gives me a good start.

[Line Dancin]

the 250 on the lowrance HDS is broadband not analog like what you are seeing on some of the other units like the HBird. i dont remember what it translates to in analog, but you cant compare apples to oranges. they are totally different animals. With my hds i can tell the difference in bottom composition hard to soft in 200ft and no problem marking bait. Can see fish laying on the bottom in 350ft. I also agree with the better transducer i have an 83 khz for lake erie walleye fishing and a 50 khz for deep water fishing.

[dballock17]

Also from what it sounds like, the power is determined by the transducer not the chartplotter, so with this it is better to pick a chartplotter i like then pick a transducer?

[killerbe20]

Also from what it sounds like, the power is determined by the transducer not the chartplotter, so with this it is better to pick a chartplotter i like then pick a transducer?

The sonar unit or module controls the output power and you match it with a corresponding transducer, either 600watt or 1kw. I personally have a 1000watt capable sounder module hooked up to a 600watt B60 transducer. I could jump up to a 1kw transducer but we don't generally have a need for seeing the bottom past 500 feet. If you have a 600watt sonar unit and 1kw transducer, you will only get 600watts of power out of the transducer.

I would figure out what sonar unit you wanted. Pretty much any Airmar transducer will be available for just about any sonar unit. Humminbird is the only manufacturer I have little knowledge about.

[SeaCatMich]

Also from what it sounds like, the power is determined by the transducer not the chartplotter, so with this it is better to pick a chartplotter i like then pick a transducer?

Not really. Think of the transducer as a speaker & microphone on a stereo system. The head unit is the stereo amplifier and is of a certain power. The gain on the sounder is the volume control. Any speaker/transducer will get the "sound" from the amp but how good it sounds depends on the speaker/transducer.

Same for transducer/speaker placement. It will vary depending on the room (speakers) or hull (transducer) to get the best performance.

A good speaker is designed to reproduce a wide range of sound frequencies that the human ear can hear. A transducer only transmits effectively on the specific frequencies that the head unit transmits. So you have to match the transducer to the head unit and its plug type/configuration. While you could pick out a matching transducer for the specs of your sounder, each manufacture will generally offer only certain ones that will work with it and are pre configured to plug in. This varies a little more when you get into very high end units as you can buy the connector separately and really get a transducer that is fine tuned to what you want.

[sslopok]

I know what works for me, I have a Humminbird 858cdi,50 kHz transducer good signal to all the depths we fish, also has down image for shallow water perch, It has lake map included and works good with the split screen. Cost about $900.00. If I wanted to go larger screen would probably go to Furuno.

I just bought a 858. Can't wait to get it hooked and try it out. Got it for under 600 and couldn't pass it up.

Sometimes i think we put too much thought into stuff and our brains get overloaded. Lots of good choices out there. Read reviews and make a choice. Dont overthink because you will go insane.

[killerbe20]

a good visual example of a stock transducer vs an upgraded transducer

http://www.thehulltruth.com/marine-electronics-forum/562826-transducer-question.html

[Paulywood]

For $1000-$2000 you will get a very good sonar and transducer combo. In reality a lot of if comes down to personal preference and what people are used to when you get up into this price range. I have had very good luck with Garmin units so last year I upgrade to a 740s. It is a 7" display which is nice, can be used as a split screen with any combination of sonar, GPS and radar. I have a dual frequency Airmar P66 transducer and have very good performance although I think it could be better with better transducer positioning, something I hope to address this year. My old units were both Garmin and I could plug either one in to use as a GPS or sonar. I plan on buying another 740s and having the capability to do the same thing. That way if something happened while I was out fishing or with short notice I could still fish and wouldn't really lose anything. But that's just my preference. Anyway, with the amount of money you are willing to spend any of the manufacturers will deliver a good product. I would go to a large show and play with them all to see which one fits your needs best.

[dballock17]

Thank you all for your input, Now i am wondering if a transom mount transducer will be as good as the transducers mounted in the bottom of the boat. This will be on a 27ft sea ray with twin I/Os

[rfricke07]

I know it may not be an extremely high dollar unit, but I LOVE my raymarine dragonfly. I went thru 5 fishfinders last year in the $500-$1000 range and hated them all. I had every1 recommending each 1 and swore by them, and I tried em and was not impressed. everything from humminbirds to lowrance and different models of each. Then my buddy that owns Clear H2o tackle in Edwardsburg mi told me to check out raymarines website and view the dragonfly. I liked what I saw so I ordered 1 and with the silver package that included navionics and inland lakes cards, it was only $700.

Lets just say I LOOOVE it. 1st off right out of the box, it looks far better and clearer than anything else in that price range. I used it for the last 2 months of the season and absolutely loved the way it worked too. and to top it off, almost everything is controlled by 1 button. it is so simple to use that it only included installation instructions and a quick 1 page sheet on how to operate it.. Hope this helps some1 out there..

ps, I even told my buddy at the store to recommend them to people and let them no if they don't like them, ill buy it from them.. lol

[UBDSLO1]

I know it may not be an extremely high dollar unit, but I LOVE my raymarine dragonfly. I went thru 5 fishfinders last year in the $500-$1000 range and hated them all. I had every1 recommending each 1 and swore by them, and I tried em and was not impressed. everything from humminbirds to lowrance and different models of each. Then my buddy that owns Clear H2o tackle in Edwardsburg mi told me to check out raymarines website and view the dragonfly. I liked what I saw so I ordered 1 and with the silver package that included navionics and inland lakes cards, it was only $700.

Lets just say I LOOOVE it. 1st off right out of the box, it looks far better and clearer than anything else in that price range. I used it for the last 2 months of the season and absolutely loved the way it worked too. and to top it off, almost everything is controlled by 1 button. it is so simple to use that it only included installation instructions and a quick 1 page sheet on how to operate it.. Hope this helps some1 out there..

ps, I even told my buddy at the store to recommend them to people and let them no if they don't like them, ill buy it from them.. lol

I'm going to be looking into this one! Thanks for posting!

[shokin]

Any suggestions for someone to install new electronics on my boat. I am in the Hudsonville area.