The Basics

[Bertrand]

Hello Everyone,

I am new to the Ludington area, and I have some basic questions for everyone. I know that it could take a lifetime of fishing to develop full answers to some of these questions, but I would really appreciate any tips or help you can provide.

• What speed do you aim for at the ball?
  
• How far behind do you run your spoons and plugs from the ball?
  
• What temperature range do you shoot for?
  
• How high above and below do you fish the temperature break?
  
• How long are your dipsy leaders?
  
• How do you calculate how far down a dipsy is? For example 150 back dialed on 3?
  
• How long are your fly leaders?
  
• How do you identify promising areas to fish?
  
• What is the value of structure in the lake?
  
• How do you find baitfish?
  
• Is live bait worth giving a shot?
  
• Any other advice you can give?
  

All the best,

Nick

[SPOONWASHER]

Ill try to address a few to the best of my knowledge

-Most guys like a speed of 2-2.2 at the ball

-I like long leads, usually 100 feet for spoons and 40-50 on plugs.

-Temp breaks will generally hold the fish, not always a given temp but salmon tend to like 48* and thereabouts

-Run as long of leaders as you can and still be able to successfully net the fish, 10-12 feet for me but a lot of guys are running even longer leaders and handlining the fish in

-My fly leaders are always changing, some days its 23" and some it 48" depends on the fish

-Meat can be very successful when no other setups are, you can buy strips to give it a try without having to use a brine

-Any other advice? Get out and fish, you will learn a lot on the lake. If you can get out and fish with another experienced fisherman; offer to pay for gas, bring snacks and drinks for the crew, etc. The amount of information you will learn with another fisherman in one trip will be more than you can learn in days on the internet.

[SeaCatMich]

Lots of varied opinion on your questions! If there were cut and dry answers, it would be called catch'n and not fish'n. Plus what works today won't tomorrow. That's what makes if fun.

• What speed do you aim for at the ball?
  Down-speed varies depending on the unit you have. With a DepthRaider my target was 2.2-2.3 most of the time, but with my X4 most hits this year have been at 2.5 to 2.7. Have also caught fish as slow as 1.8 mph and as fast as 3.2.
  
• How far behind do you run your spoons and plugs from the ball?
  I generally use the 100 "rule". 100 minus depth = set back... so at 20' down, 80' back; at 70' down, 30' back. However I rarely go shorter than 20-30' back anymore except when trying for Coho in the spring where I'll run some spoons 5-10' off the ball right in the prop wash
  
• What temperature range do you shoot for?
  42* deep near bottom; 46-49* suspended, but anything below 52 if it is otherwise warm -- If there are fish consistently on the graph at a certain depth range, I'll put a lure or two up there too even if it is out of temp
  
• How high above and below do you fish the temperature break?
  Generally up to 10' above and if I see fish lower will go there too. If fish are showing consistently at a depth, I generally try to fish a feet above them as generally salmon/trout feed looking up.
  
• How long are your dipsy leaders?
  8'-10' for spoons and plugs if the rod is long enough (remember you still have to be able to get the fish close enough to net); 5' for flasher/fly, flasher/cutbait (plus the flasher and fly/cutbait)
  
• How do you calculate how far down a dipsy is? For example 150 back dialed on 3?
  I use the Precision Trolling book but only as a general guide. Have got 10 hits this year while adjusting divers -- letting them out slowly to get more depth.
  
• How long are your fly leaders?
  8" flasher = 23" from tip of loop to nose of fly; 11" usually at 28-30"
  
• How do you identify promising areas to fish?
  Look for good temps intersecting bottom and for areas with good depth changes on the chart. Mostly though it is trial and error of just getting out there and taking to others. Fishing the lake is more oriented to the depth of the fish as opposed to a specific location -- especially from Muskegon south on the Michigan coast where you don't have much structure to create upwellings of current.
  
• What is the value of structure in the lake?
  See previous answer
  
• How do you find baitfish?
  Bait orients to temp and structure just like salmon/trout. The reason that salmon/trout feed on alewife is that their temp preferences are very close. Find bait and you will find predators and vise versa.
  
• Is live bait worth giving a shot?
  Off piers I know guys that use live alewife. Never heard of it for trolling. But, cut bait or whole alewife/herring rigs are very effective.
  
• Any other advice you can give?
  Get out and try. Go with others with experience or on a "learning" charter to see how it is done. Ask at the launches/marinas -- peoplee generally love to share and help others (plus brag a little )
  

[tltorrice]

These are all good questions. I had some of the same questions when I started out. One thing that helped me and my crew was reading the book, Keeting on Kings. It will answer these questions and give you a good start to developing your own program.

[SeaCatMich]

Dan Keating's videos are also excellent for learning quickly about catching salmon: http://bluehorizonsportfishing.net/books-and-dvds.html?99442fec65e0565b58159c3121c2ed84=20917769a7b6f74a42ad0a15b89f6335

[southtrollsouth]

I am new to the Ludington area, and I have some basic questions for everyone. I know that it could take a lifetime of fishing to develop full answers to some of these questions, but I would really appreciate any tips or help you can provide.

Good questions, but you have far too much on your plate here to think about. We keep it simple, it works.

• What speed do you aim for at the ball?
  No set speed, whatever you pick for your program stick with it every day. Dont listen to anyone else, stick to your speed every time out.
  
• How far behind do you run your spoons and plugs from the ball?
  No set distance. Your lead length will dictate your speed. Tighter leads then slower speed, longer leads then faster speed...generally.
  
• What temperature range do you shoot for?
  Completely ignore temperature, other than finding warm water in spring. We catch kings in 39 to 76 degree water on a regular basis.
  
• How high above and below do you fish the temperature break?
  See above. We dont even know where the break is. Dial in the active zone for the day and put every rod you have in that zone.
  
• How long are your dipsy leaders?
  Doesn't matter. We pull 10 foot, others who smash fish pull 6 foot, some pull 15. Whatever you pick, follow the speed rule above.
  
• How do you calculate how far down a dipsy is? For example 150 back dialed on 3?
  Buy Romanacks book
  
• How long are your fly leaders?
  Doesn't matter. Pull them all the same, and follow your speed rule above.
  
• How do you identify promising areas to fish?
  Wherever you caught one or two. There are fish everywhere, not just one place. If you caught one or two, there are more there. Stay on them. Most guys who catch fish in one depth assume they will catch them with the same program in another depth and wander off aimlessly following the radio. Grind where you catch them, you will catch more.
  
• What is the value of structure in the lake?
  If you have structure, expect to have your gear cut off by every clown out there trying to fish it. If you dont have it, your structure is the current.
  
• How do you find baitfish?
  You dont. You mark it incidentally while fishing. Fish where the active fish are, not where the bait is.
  
• Is live bait worth giving a shot?
  No
  
• Any other advice you can give?
  Turn off the radio, don't talk to anyone, and dial in your own program. Book a couple of charters with different top captains in the ports you want to fish and pay attention. This is fairly easy, not rocket science. good luck out there!
  

All the best,

Nick

[KJ pluggin]

Welcome to GLF Nick. Lots of good info so far so I guess I will just say to try and find what works for you on your boat, every boat and setup trolls differently.

[Nailer]

Nick, welcome to the site. It may be hard to grasp but what Southtroll put up is %100 on the mark.

When you get a fish, duplicate what it came on.

[Spoonin Around]

best advice i can give someone is what works on some boats doesn't on others ... and fish go out of temp to feed

[Priority1]

Nick, A warm