Big Red Classic 2012

[Splinehead]

As I have stated here before, I will fish the BRC as long as the committee keeps it fair. And again, weigh 5 gives no one an advantage. The better teams will catch more fish, put two days of “more fish†together and have a better chance of getting the five fish they need each day to beat the guys that only catch 5 and weigh five.

Let’s look at this year’s Grand Haven tournament. Everyone’s favorite team, BC2, weighed in ten fish the first day and only posted about 7.7 LBS. 10 dinks! To me, this begs a hypothetical question. So I ask you guys, should a team that gets 10 dinks beat a team that gets five 10 pounders?

Second hypothetical situation. In a weigh ten tourney, team A bets on the numbers and gets 10 dinks. Team B decides to go for weight and gets five 10 pounders. Who is the better fishing team?

[1mainiac]

clearly the one the has the most points when it is over. Weigh 5 is making it more like a Bass tournament I don't want to fish in a Bass tournament if I did I would own a differant boat and fishing gear. Catch 10 weigh 5 is allowing better teams to cull 5 fish and worse teams to cull none. Personally I would rather see a 2 or 3 man limit and weigh em all then you can see who catches fish rathar then who culls the best. The entire idea of giving points and bonus points per fish depending on event has made it no longer about the best overall box. Kinda like NASCAR making everyone drive nearly identical cars has made the race more about pit stops and timing than actual racing. In the end it comes down to points not racing.

[Just Hook'n]

Amen Jim.

The fisherman who catches the most fish is better IMHO, that is why I prefer to see more weighed.

Grand Haven just flat out sucked ... but the boat who caught the most fish ultimately won and they deserved it, which is the point most guys are trying to make here.

Great fishing boats catch a lot of fish and Jim's comments are dead on. We want fishing tournaments, not culling tournaments.

[Splinehead]

Here too, as I have stated before, I would like to weigh all of my fish. Whatever the number is. I don't feel my team is at an advantage or disadvantage with the current rules. The so-called "better fishermen" will have the odds in their favor and will rise to the top as they did last year and always will. I won't worry about someone getting "lucky".

So I will fish the BRC, I will have my team vote, and then I will vote on the ballot in the BRC captains bag accordingly. If I don't fish I can't vote and won't be part of the process. I feel the idea of letting the actual participants vote is a good one. I’m sure the committee will take note of the votes and go with the majority.

Letting the blogisphere try to run or influence the tourney isn't going to work either. Espically when many on the blogisphere don't fish the tourney anyway. I sure that as far as the committee is concerned the "masses" are the people that fish the tourney.

So again, if the committee keeps it fair, I will keep fishing and sponsoring the BRC. You don't sponsor an event like this to try and get your way. If a sponsor leaves because they couldn't get their way, so be it. You sponsor for the good of the community, the camaraderie of the people in the event and hopefully advertise your company.

Therefore, I will heed the words of one of the worlds greatest fishermen, The American Sportsman, Curt Gowdy...... “SHUT UP AND FISH†...

That is all. I have said enough.

[Just Hook'n]

I think the sponsor is considering leaving, because the board is NOT listening to the majority of the fisherman that want the rules changed, but you are entiled to your opinion.

I'll probably just donate $100 to the cause (because it's a good one) case a vote and fish the 333 only.

Though I guess I should value more the opinions of someone who has posted on this site 8 times versus some of the more serious members. But that's up to me too.

Ain't America great.

We can all have and voice our opinions. No matter how wrong or right they are.

[jjvette1]

you won't have the opportunity to vote unless your registered for the tournament. You can fish the 333 without being entered in the the tournament.

[ryan]

So we fished the Muskegon Triport over the weekend under the catch 10 weigh 5 format, and heres my take. First things first I am hoping the BRC comittee is not mislead by the reasons for the big turnout. There were 80 boats,22 Pros and 58 Ams, the biggest turnout on the trail so far. As most know this was a three port tournament, which I believe was the major reason for the turnout. Secondly, allowing the boats to sign up rght up untill the captains meeting was a major factor for getting the smaller boats in, who had an oppurtunity to keep an eye on the weather up till the tournament and decide if they wanted to fish. No late fees or waiting around after paying a month in advance to hope the lake is fishable. In my opinion the catch format had little to no effect. On to the fishing: Congrats to the winners and those who were able to find the big fish, because there were tons of little fish around. Ive read alot of opinions on this format and the dumbed down quotes are right on the money. The competive excitement we have on tournament day definitely did not equal that of any other tournament we have ever fished. For us there wasnt the excitement of catching your number, it was all about not catching, as in little fish. Tournaments should be about catching your number. You should be rewarded for catching a 3# coho on a meat rig, not seeing that fish go down as one less opportunity to get a bigger one. Which poses the question..there are lots of people that oppose the 5 fish,and those that like it. But what is the sound fundamental reason for only allowing 10 fish to be caught? I would love to know the reasoning. Give teams more margin for error as you might call it, or more room to manuever as far as upping it to 15 or DNR limit. This alone I believe would make a better transition into the catch 5 format. There is one major flaw I see in this format: There is no real opportunity to make a huge jump in the standings for a boat who would have a less than stellar day one. That was one of the best parts of a catch 10,12,or 15. You just cant make up the points in a five fish format. Thats what keeps teams going on day 2, the excitement of havin an awesome day, and knowing that if the boats ahead of u had tougher ones, you could make a huge jump in the standings. So, just my opinion. Great lakes salmon fishing is the most thrilling rewarding fishing out there. Put it in a tournament format, and the excitement is incredible, dumb it down with a catch 5 format, and you kill the excitement.

[Line Dancin]

Secondly, allowing the boats to sign up rght up untill the captains meeting was a major factor for getting the smaller boats in, who had an oppurtunity to keep an eye on the weather up till the tournament and decide if they wanted to fish. No late fees or waiting around after paying a month in advance to hope the lake is fishable. .

I completely agree with this!!!!

[Just Hook'n]

To add to Ryans comments.

1st and 20th place were decided by like 30 points or something.

There were a number of boats in the middle (9th-12th) that all had the same number, just the decimal place was different.

I know I hate getting edged out by ounces in the tournaments I've fished, but to get edged out by 4 other boats would really piss me off.

I DO like Aarons comments about the late sign up. For smaller boats that does make it much nicer not to charge them more to sign up when the weather is more predictable. Good point Aaron.

[ryan]

The difference is..If your not in the pack after the first day, there is little chance to have a good day and get back in it..unless of course you catch 5 25 pound kings

[Line Dancin]

To add to Ryans comments.

1st and 20th place were decided by like 30 points or something.

There were a number of boats in the middle (9th-12th) that all had the same number' date=' just the decimal place was different.

I know I hate getting edged out by ounces in the tournaments I've fished, but to get edged out by 4 other boats would really piss me off.

I DO like Aarons comments about the late sign up. For smaller boats that does make it much nicer not to charge them more to sign up when the weather is more predictable. Good point Aaron.[/quote']

Actually it was ryans comment i just reiterated it and said i really like that idea. Gotta give credit to where credit is due. I hate fishing bad weather and try not to anymore. I fish for fun, not abuse and i have been in some nasty weather fishing tournaments that i would normally never go out in. But my money was in and i wasn't just giving up at that point.

[Treblemaker]

So we fished the Muskegon Triport over the weekend under the catch 10 weigh 5 format, and heres my take. First things first I am hoping the BRC comittee is not mislead by the reasons for the big turnout. There were 80 boats,22 Pros and 58 Ams, the biggest turnout on the trail so far. As most know this was a three port tournament, which I believe was the major reason for the turnout. Secondly, allowing the boats to sign up rght up untill the captains meeting was a major factor for getting the smaller boats in, who had an oppurtunity to keep an eye on the weather up till the tournament and decide if they wanted to fish. No late fees or waiting around after paying a month in advance to hope the lake is fishable. In my opinion the catch format had little to no effect. On to the fishing: Congrats to the winners and those who were able to find the big fish, because there were tons of little fish around. Ive read alot of opinions on this format and the dumbed down quotes are right on the money. The competive excitement we have on tournament day definitely did not equal that of any other tournament we have ever fished. For us there wasnt the excitement of catching your number, it was all about not catching, as in little fish. Tournaments should be about catching your number. You should be rewarded for catching a 3# coho on a meat rig, not seeing that fish go down as one less opportunity to get a bigger one. Which poses the question..there are lots of people that oppose the 5 fish,and those that like it. But what is the sound fundamental reason for only allowing 10 fish to be caught? I would love to know the reasoning. Give teams more margin for error as you might call it, or more room to manuever as far as upping it to 15 or DNR limit. This alone I believe would make a better transition into the catch 5 format. There is one major flaw I see in this format: There is no real opportunity to make a huge jump in the standings for a boat who would have a less than stellar day one. That was one of the best parts of a catch 10,12,or 15. You just cant make up the points in a five fish format. Thats what keeps teams going on day 2, the excitement of havin an awesome day, and knowing that if the boats ahead of u had tougher ones, you could make a huge jump in the standings. So, just my opinion. Great lakes salmon fishing is the most thrilling rewarding fishing out there. Put it in a tournament format, and the excitement is incredible, dumb it down with a catch 5 format, and you kill the excitement.

We also fished the triport and I am convinced that I will not fish another 5 fish tournament next year. The catch 10 weigh 5 format really changed how we fished, and although we did catch 9 fish each day they were not what we were looking for and we did not do very well considering we fished nearly 8 hours, that's 32 man hours each day, to weigh 5, and only catch 10 fish. Why 3-6 fishermen on a boat can only catch 5-10 fish with a 5 fish limit is ridiculous. I'd rather fish for fun than be forced to dumb down our fishing efforts. These tournaments want crews to fish 8 hours to catch 10 fish and weigh only 5. No thanks, maybe it's time to save up and start fishing Ludington and bigger events that stick with the traditional formats.

[1mainiac]

SO I was right to stay home this weekend and not fish the Muskegon tourney. I nearly went to the captains meeting on fri and signed up but then said to heck with it and stayed home. On another note if we had 50 boats in the MSCST at 30 bucks ea would pay 400 for 1st 300 for 2nd 200 for 3rd and 100 for 4th with 250 for big fish and 250 in the port championship fund. We fish 3 man DNR rules and you weigh your best 6. just a one day fun event you guys should all try.

[spoonfed]

We also fished the Muskegon tournament. We were done Sat at 7 and done Sun at 9. Sat was tough getting through the little ones, but we jumped 20 spots on Sun with a better box. They had a good turnout, and the payout was good for the top 3

[DIRTY DOG]

To add to Ryans comments.

1st and 20th place were decided by like 30 points or something.

There were a number of boats in the middle (9th-12th) that all had the same number' date=' just the decimal place was different.

I know I hate getting edged out by ounces in the tournaments I've fished, but to get edged out by 4 other boats would really piss me off.

I DO like Aarons comments about the late sign up. For smaller boats that does make it much nicer not to charge them more to sign up when the weather is more predictable. Good point Aaron.[/quote']

Mark, it was a lot closer than that, after day one we were sitting in 13th place and it was a matter on 7.2 lbs

We also fished the triport and I am convinced that I will not fish another 5 fish tournament next year. The catch 10 weigh 5 format really changed how we fished, and although we did catch 9 fish each day they were not what we were looking for and we did not do very well considering we fished nearly 8 hours, that's 32 man hours each day, to weigh 5, and only catch 10 fish. Why 3-6 fishermen on a boat can only catch 5-10 fish with a 5 fish limit is ridiculous. I'd rather fish for fun than be forced to dumb down our fishing efforts. These tournaments want crews to fish 8 hours to catch 10 fish and weigh only 5. No thanks, maybe it's time to save up and start fishing Ludington and bigger events that stick with the traditional formats.

I agree with you 100% Tim, our team has made a tenitive decision to not fish any of the weigh 5 tourneys from here on out . I also dont think that the survey at the Holland Capt. meeting will make a bit of difference. The commity will make it what they want. Just cant stand the dumbing down thing.

Sorry if I affended anyone but thats just my oppinion.

[Treblemaker]

Pretty simple really, standard format used to be set up for everyone to compete as it was. Now it's like buying a raffle ticket and hope the fish landed are big where you set down.

My favorite format for the larger events, and what I would like to see:

Max 9 rods - 3 man limit so small boats can compete

Max 15 fish - 3 man limit so small boats can compete

Weigh best 10-12 fish because you have to get your fish to compete, and it ain't easy to do 2 days in a row. It also gives teams a chance to make a big move on day 2 and creates high drama.

Open communication - difficult rule to enforce

Bonus trout points - what ever happened to rewarding teams for versatility?

Everyone must leave and depart same port

Trending now the rules are all over the place from port to port and vary from a full fledged event to a simple club tournament like weigh 5 catch 10 which is fine if that is what the club wants to see. Everyone can catch 5 so anyone can win. With a crew of 5 you can each catch 2 fish per day, or 4 fish over 2 days, how fun is that? Might as well just make it a one day tournament at this point so guys can get back to fishing the rest of the weekend. Maybe even go back out that evening to catch the rest of their limit.

[DIRTY DOG]

Very well put Tim, I would also like to see that all coolers be dropped off by boat, none of this bringing them in by vehical from a different port.

[1mainiac]

Terry the only issue with that is it makes it tough to find a location to run the event. Pretty much means it can only be done at larger Marina's. What I would prefer to see is unified rules every event use the same rule book and have a sanctioning body to oversee the fishing portion all Pro Boats get a observer from the sanctioning body not swap team members. Top 10 Am boats get a observer on day 2, observer must remain with the cooler until weigh in open radio both classes. Observers log every fish with a time stamp on a notepador a smart phone, picture optional but prefered. My other idea would be to mount GPS camera's on all boats then they could turn in the memory card with the cooler no edits allowed no one see's the footage till next day so no cheating.

[DIRTY DOG]

Thats a good idea also.

[Reel Screwd]

I agree with the above comments on guys being able to run around with thier coolers in these tri port tournys.. im am fishing the saug tourny and was just reading the rules its kinda crazy they allow you to drive around with a cooler of fish. i think they should have an observer on am side as well for these type of tournys not saying fisherman cheat but im am sure the 1st place prize can be tempting to some

[Reel Screwd]

I agree with the above comments on guys being able to run around with thier coolers in these tri port tournys.. im am fishing the saug tourny and was just reading the rules its kinda crazy they allow you to drive around with a cooler of fish. i think they should have an observer on am side as well for these type of tournys not saying fisherman cheat but im am sure the 1st place prize can be tempting to some

I guess im tired lol whats all that "im am" stuff

[spoonfed]

beating a dead horse!

[jimbobber]

agread eric let it go !!!! it will probly change next year just fish and have fun!!

[wild at heart]

Tim, Dirty Dog, Ryan, and JH I'm with you. I fished the Muskegon triport and hated the format. We worked to not get small fish but still did. It changes your whole strategy, and chance becomes a big factor. I have fished the BRC for 6 years and am seriously thinking of skipping it even though my whole vacation is planned around it, including being at Holland State Park that whole week. Why would I do this? It was not fun concentrating on keeping fish off and not on catching more. I think the BRC is the best run tournament I've fished and you get a lot for your money, but the format and like Tim said, pay all that money for 5 fish. Sunday we were done by 9. I am thinking of fishing the Waypoint/Saugatuck now instead. You can fish out of Holland and drive your catch to Gables. Best part CATCH 15 WEIGH 10. I will also be fishing the steelheaders mens the week before the BRC. CATCH 12 WEIGH 12.