Big Red Classic 2012

[Ace HI]

Not that many years ago we were begging for that shaker to add the 10 points per fish now we have a couple of decent years of fishing and we want to dumb down the sport. Yea it sucks to come to weigh in and find yourself a hundred points out of first place but you know what, it is what you caught so work on getting better next time don't force the rest to fish at your level. The only way you get better is to keep high goals and keep trying anyone can get lucky and get 5 nice fish but those who can go get 10 or more 2 days in a row deserve to win. Maybe skip the fishing completely and just give everyone a trophy.

[ekbelt]

Great feedback, and some great ponits here! I plan on printing this thread out and presenting it to the commitee at our next meeting. I see the poll is close to 50/50, I wouldn't mind hearing some comments from people who voted to keep it at a 10 fish limit, or anyone in favor for the 5 fish weigh in limit.

[spoonfed]

Erik, if you drop it to a 5 fish a day. Are you dropping entry fees also? What kind of pay out are you looking at? I know last year we burnt $600 in fuel for 3 days.

[ekbelt]

Last year was catch 10 weigh 5 for both Pro and Am. We left the entry fees the same as they have always been.

You can see they payouts on the website from last year-- www.bigredclassic.com and the go to the Leaderboard links.

We payout well... The sponsors really help. I think last year overall was a 110% plus payout. Sponsor money always pays the top Pro and Am prize. The entry fees are split 2nd down to what ever we pay down on a sliding scale.

[Ace HI]

If you keep both the goals and the payout high people will want to fish it any 2 drunks in a boat can get lucky and catch 5 nice fish. Getting 10 a day is another level. All the big events should get Go Pro to sponsor them and put cameras on every boat then observers would not be needed. A quick file check would show if the camera was on and any questions could be verified by checking the video anyone with edits is DQ'd. With the new GPS cameras a time and location for each fish is on the chip. turn in your memory chip with your cooler have a couple of people verify the top 5 or so in each class. No more cheating easier for us little guys to move to Pro class because we would not need a spare crewman for a observer or a place to put one on our boat. On top of that you would have video of every fish caught and could sell both a best of and a bloopers video for the event.

[spoonfed]

I still think it should be weigh 10. You could talk to Fred and have it a 333 only port also.

then those that cant catch there fish only need 3 all weekend

[Fly Catcher]

My vote if given the option to vote for this would be a catch 12 weigh 12. Even though we did not catch our 5 fish on the first day last year I don't like the only weighing in 5 fish. The Muskegon tournament is going to the same format this year and we will not be running that tournament do to that reason. It's not worth the time and money to go to a different port to fish for 5 fish. The only reason we are thinking of fishing the Big Red this year is cause it's our home port.

[Splinehead]

My personal preference would be catch 10 weigh 10. However, as long as the committee makes the rules so that no one has an advantage I’m in. Its fun and helps two very good causes! Weighing five gives no one an advantage. If someone were to worry about two drunks in a boat getting lucky they have other issues. I’ve been in two of these weigh 5 tourneys now and the fears of an “ice cube in the mouth†making the difference hasn’t happened either.

What I don’t understand is that back in April, the following was posted on the BRC web page “The rules are set for 2012. We will be running the exact same format as last year-- Catch 10 weigh 5 for both the Pro and Am divisions. “ I believe they went to weigh 5 to get more participants. Apparently it worked. On Sunday of last years tourney they reported that their entry numbers were up. So now why are they thinking of changing it after this post? Why disenfranchise those that liked last year, read that post, and thought, cool I’m in again?

Sponsors want people to enter, sponsors want to be seen. If weighing 5 helps to achieve this goal that’s the direction the committee needs to go. Participants want payouts. Payouts come from sponsors and entry fees. The more people enter, the more the payouts no matter who it is, two drunks in a boat or the passionate fishermen and women.

If you like to fish, like to help the community, want a challenge, get in. If your worried about two drunks in a boat or the small guy getting “lucky†with five fish, sit on the sidelines.

[Line Dancin]

My personal preference would be catch 10 weigh 10. However, as long as the committee makes the rules so that no one has an advantage I’m in. Its fun and helps two very good causes! Weighing five gives no one an advantage. If someone were to worry about two drunks in a boat getting lucky they have other issues. I’ve been in two of these weigh 5 tourneys now and the fears of an “ice cube in the mouth†making the difference hasn’t happened either.

What I don’t understand is that back in April, the following was posted on the BRC web page “The rules are set for 2012. We will be running the exact same format as last year-- Catch 10 weigh 5 for both the Pro and Am divisions. “ I believe they went to weigh 5 to get more participants. Apparently it worked. On Sunday of last years tourney they reported that their entry numbers were up. So now why are they thinking of changing it after this post? Why disenfranchise those that liked last year, read that post, and thought, cool I’m in again?

Sponsors want people to enter, sponsors want to be seen. If weighing 5 helps to achieve this goal that’s the direction the committee needs to go. Participants want payouts. Payouts come from sponsors and entry fees. The more people enter, the more the payouts no matter who it is, two drunks in a boat or the passionate fishermen and women.

If you like to fish, like to help the community, want a challenge, get in. If your worried about two drunks in a boat or the small guy getting “lucky†with five fish, sit on the sidelines.

I like your comments. Here one more way to make it more fair. Lets go back to the old days of money tournaments and not allow prefishing from wednesday till the tournament. that way the guy that cant get off work to prefish can still get in and have a chance.

[SCUM LINE]

weigh 5 helps with cheating..cull all the fish u want? AMS only

the catch 12 and weigh 10 who says when pulling lines they did get a laker dragging thats bigger than 1 of the other fish?

The 10 fish give home port boys a upper hand,

[Just Hook'n]

Home port boys should have the upper hand.

They are talented fisherman and know where to go if their home waters.

They deserve to get an advantage.

Also, the numbers WERE NOT up last year compared to years past in any statistically significant way.

I would think that the sponsors would want to see more quality fisherman at the tournaments, not just more fisherman. By this I mean, the sponsors should want to talk to the people that spend money buying their equipment. Those that spend a few thousand each year. I would not think that they would want fisherman who are still using lures from teh 1980 and only go out twice a year.

Don't get me wrong, I was one of those guys and I had a great time in the weekend warrior tournaments trying to work my way up to the big events. And let's be honest, I'm still not that good at the big tournaments.

BUT I would much rather put my money in against the guys that I respect that can catch 10 fish two days in a row.

CAN WE PLEASE HEAR FROM SOME SPONSORS ON THIS ISSUE??????????

Does anyone have the balls to say who they really want to see at the big events?

[fishsniffer]

i would definatly like to see more than a weigh 5..after that i dont care if its a weigh 10 catch 10,15,20 whatever....just not a weigh 5..that being said i will still fish them..

[Splinehead]

Look at the sponsors on the BRC web page. The Anchor sponsor is a bank (credit union). They want people. Then you have a logistics company, a spline machine company, a meat company, an insurance company, a marina, and one fishing related company.

[Just Hook'n]

Interesting.

I wonder if more lure companies and fishing equipment companies would be involved more if they knew the people there would eventually be buying their goods.

I'm guessing you are the spline company.

Thank you for your support of the event.

I just want to see the tournament suceed and I don't feel dumbing it down does that in the long run.

[ekbelt]

I've been working for 'Industry Related' sponsors for 5 years and have worked really hard on it too. In my opinion they get the best return on investment for these tournaments. The sad thing is Great Lakes fishing is seasonal and most of these guys just dont have the money to step up. It's a very short season for them... the majority of the fisherman are out there 3-4 months of the year. Even if they did step up big time they would never get a return on investment to justify the cost. It's such a niche area of fishing it makes it tough. Banks on the other hand have the cash to poney up, which means making an ROI for them is a little different. They just want the most exposure they can get... they don't really care who's at the tournament, its just quantity of people. It's a tough deal!

[Splinehead]

Quote:

"CAN WE PLEASE HEAR FROM SOME SPONSORS ON THIS ISSUE??????????

Does anyone have the balls to say who they really want to see at the big events?"

OK, I went to lunch and decided to come clean due to the above quote from Just Hook’n. I am the President and CEO of West Michigan Spline, Inc. (thus the screen name of splinehead). I have been on the BRC committee in the past but have not for the past few years. I have not brought it up before as I did not want to seem biased with my postings.

West Michigan Spline, Inc. is one of the sponsors that you see on the BRC home page and on the tournament banner. West Michigan Spline, Inc has been an anchor sponsor, a gold sponsor for many, many years and now a sliver sponsor due to “this economyâ€. We hope to go back to gold next year but, we will see. Even in one of our worst years lately, 2009, we were still a silver sponsor. All in all a total of about 15 years now, I think.

West Michigan Spline, Inc. gets no business benefits from being a sponsor of the BRC. Maybe by a lottery sized chance our logo may be seen on 333 TV or from the Tournament Trail Magazine by one of our customers. Most people do not even know what a spline is. Why do we do it? To give back to the community where we conduct our business. We could just take the money and give it to a charity but we have chosen this avenue. We love to fish but with schedules and all we only get to go out a few times a year. Over these 15 years we have entered an estimated 40 or so tournaments.

With all of that being said, and further to my last few posts, we want to see a fun and fair event for all fishermen and women. An event that any and all who wish to participate can have a shot at doing well (by luck or however they do it within the rules). In the end it’s about the two charities, the American Cancer Society (ACS), specifically Breast Cancer research and the Boy and Girls Club of Greater Holland.

[Just Hook'n]

Splinehead, thanks for the explanation and the continued support of the causes.

FYI, even though I chose to abstain from the evetn last year I still bought tee-shirts and paid twice as much as they were asking for them.

For me, it's not about the money (ok a little).

It's more about a compeition that shows the best fisherman at the top of the scoreboard.

That being said, the scoreboard last year had some pretty darn good fisherman at the top too, even though I disagree with the format.

[nojmanloo]

Well, I am pretty much responsible for the anchor sponsorship with Community West Credit Union as I am the CEO of the credit union. I sponsor the tournament because I believe the Big Red Classic is good for the West Michigan community and it is one way the credit union can support the community.

I also fish the tournament and want it to be as successful as possible. I am on my second year being on the board for it. I was disappoint a few years ago when the catch/weigh rates were lowered and decided I could be more effective being a part of the process rather than just complaining.

After being a part of the board I am amazed at how hard the other members work and at how well organized and well run the tournament is. While the rules and catch rates certainly are a big part of the tournament I believe the real success of the Big Red is in how well it is run and all the other elements that make a tournament fun to be a part of. The people on the board have a love for fishing want to put on a great tournament that is fun to be a part of. They are very committed and many of them support the tournament with sponsorship dollars from their own companies.

I know all the comments here will be reviewed discussed at the next meeting.

Jon Looman

Ofishally Hooked

[Just Hook'n]

Jon,

I agree with everything you have said.

For that reason I strongly urge the board to consider that not one person here has said "PLEASE keep the weigh 5 rule", while MANY people have said, "PLEASE weigh more . . . whether 10, 12 or 15".

I want to see the tournament here for a long time.

It IS well run and the money goes to good charities.

I would hate to see a lot of what I consider good fisherman in the area not join the event, or at the very least gripe about it and get a bad taste in their mouths.

I think this will be my last post on the issue as I think many sides have been adequately presented.

Good luck with the board meeting.

[jimbobber]

ok im going to chime in on this subject i guess, As a small tackle manufacturer i can tell ya its expensive to donate product to such a large tourney. If i did donate i would like the "average Joe" to get them cus the "good fishermen" have their personal sponsors who help them with their tackle. I no longer give stuff to charter captains any more cus when i do i never hear from them again ( even tho they use my stuff) cus they cant becouse they are in with other bigger sponsors.So i just give a little cash when i can.As for the weigh 5 ,,,,,,,,, I am one of those guys who fishes a lot and can put 10 t0 15 fish in the boat but with the weigh 5 i fished for big fish cus it was going to take big fish to win so it was much tuffer to even get my 5 and i did not the first day. But i did get lucky and got that big fish , i was fishing a big fish program but still it was a lot of luck involved . You can say what you want about catching tons of fish but fishing for big fish adds new strategy to the tourney and i like it personally .I think the commitee puts on one heck of a great tourney with great payouts , meals and other events , the more people that enter the more they can raise for the great charitys! If weigh 5 does this than by all means they should keep it that way. Just my 2 cents.

[jjvette1]

Thankyou JimBobber

[twohand]

I agree with a lot of what has been already said on here but I figured I'd put my opinion out there. I didn't notice much if any improvement in participant numbers with the weigh 5 format. I personally like a catch 15 weigh 12. Luck plays too much of a role in a weigh 5 tourney. If I get beat in a tourney I want to know it was because someone figured out how to get numbers AND big fish, not just lucked into a couple big ones. Like I said, this is just my opinion, I would like to see at least a 10 fish tourney.

Dustin Peck

Team Flycatcher

[Ace HI]

One big reason this sport does not really take off is the rules vary from event to event. Most bass tourney's have the same or at least similar rules. So you can enter nearly any of them and fish the same rules. I can understand having some varaition based on port and other things however a Pro Salmon tournament should all have the same basic fishing rules. The same applies to AM class. as it is now except for charter captains a team can fish Pro one week and AM the next. Charter boats can put together teams minus the actual captain to fish AM. A group of guys can change names for every event and no one even seems to care. Pre fishing should be cut out if for no other reason than to reduce the number of fish taken pre fishing. If we could get a group of events to say this is the fishing rules and make it stick than maybe the sport could grow. As it is every event is a stand alone event so really after all these years we still don't have a organized sport fishing event on the big lake. That does not mean that the events are unorganized or badly managed it just means what it means there is no real sport fishing tour here. We have had glimmers of hope with the 333 and GL2S but yet no one has really made it happen.

[luremaker]

I would have to agree with what Jimmy has said , I to am a tackle manufacture as a lot of you know and he is right by saying the cost to donate to a large tourney is quite high for us. I have given grab bag for a lot of years ,and have stopped by to watch them give it away.

I also agree on the captain comment that I try not to give a lot to them because there is no reason to give to someone that has a sponsor and can not give a true feed back . For me it all about the feed back that comes with giving things out. This is why I enjoy handing it out to the guy that can get out and fish once or twice a week and put the item down and give it a true test. Not that I don't give things out to the guys that fish everyday.

I believe that the committee that runs this do a great job along with fred from the 333 could things be better (like my boss has told me you will never get a 10 because there is always room to improve on a good thing) Are they running a great show my answer is yes . I would also have to agree on the 5 fish limit , I also bass fish and it is the best of 5 fish that make you work for the big ones.

That's my 2 cents

luremaker

[GLF]

I also bass fish and it is the best of 5 fish that make you work for the big ones.

Bass fisherman use a livewell and can keep their 5 alive while they cull for bigger fish. Salmon have a higher mortality rate. I have not seen a salmon live in a livewell for very long. Once they are pulled from their preferred temp and put into 80 degree live well water, its a done ticket.

How about a comprise on the number? Some want 10 fish, and others want 5 fish. Set the limit at 7 and eveyone should be happy!