tournament culling

[fishsniffer]

lots of culled fish for a weigh 5..they should look into changing to a no cull in my opinion..

[Reel Bucks]

Just wondering why you would like to see a no cull.

[fishsniffer]

Just wondering why you would like to see a no cull.

first off im not busting nuts with that statement..had i fished that tourney and was allowed to cull and i was hitting small fish i would be looking to upgrade also..that being said..just cus they swim away dont mean they live..some do..some dont..you net these smaller fish and scales are everywhere..which makes them prone to all sorts of things from disease to bacterial growth and end up dying on the bottom..again im just stating an opinion on the event..nothing else and am not looking for an argument..its my understanding that the pro division is a no cull and if they hit pockets of small fish they need to decide wether to fish it out in the peewee patch or pull and find bigger fish..just my opinion they should make it that way in the ams also

[Reel Bucks]

fishsniffer - Absolutely no harm, I was just wondering what your take on the issue was. I like the cull system and just wanted to hear your reasoning.

I know on our boat, the fish we do release we try not to net them and unhook them off the back and right back into the water and do not touch them. But in a tournament like St. Joe where it is DNR rules, we had five people on the boat so we could legally keep 25 fish and we only threw back a few.

As far as rules go for Pro and AM, it makes sense to me that the two divisions would have different rules and that the rules for the Pro division would be tougher. South Haven this weekend, all three divisions have the same rules. That just doesn't make sense. Why charge different entry fees and payout more when all three divisions are exactly the same?? That's why I like the cull for AM and no cull for Pro.

I will move this topic to a different page, but I just wanted to hear your opinion.

[fishsniffer]

fishsniffer - Absolutely no harm, I was just wondering what your take on the issue was. I like the cull system and just wanted to hear your reasoning.

I know on our boat, the fish we do release we try not to net them and unhook them off the back and right back into the water and do not touch them. But in a tournament like St. Joe where it is DNR rules, we had five people on the boat so we could legally keep 25 fish and we only threw back a few.

As far as rules go for Pro and AM, it makes sense to me that the two divisions would have different rules and that the rules for the Pro division would be tougher. South Haven this weekend, all three divisions have the same rules. That just doesn't make sense. Why charge different entry fees and payout more when all three divisions are exactly the same?? That's why I like the cull for AM and no cull for Pro.

I will move this topic to a different page, but I just wanted to hear your opinion.

i agree the pro division should absolutely be tougher..but i think it should be done thru having to catch more fish..im not smart enough to know wether our fishery is in danger or anything like that..and i doubt it is..but im pretty sure thats why some of these tourneys went to a no cull system..so we didnt have 3 miles of floating trout and shakers..i dont wanna make a bigger deal out of this than it is by any means..again..just an opinion

[Twill23]

I believe all the amateur divisions should be cull events. Neither you, nor I know how many of these fish actually survive. But we sure do catch a lot that have prior marks in their mouths from previous fisherman.

As far as the fishery crashing, i sure hope your just not turning a blind eye, because it did happen, and it happened almost overnight.

[SCUM LINE]

I read that post..

I fished that Tourney and had no Problem with it

Dehook boat side some made it to the nest and Dehook and never handle

But you could keep more than 5 fish, you just had to pick ur top 5 for weigh in

[2UNREEL]

As far as rules go for Pro and AM, it makes sense to me that the two divisions would have different rules and that the rules for the Pro division would be tougher. South Haven this weekend, all three divisions have the same rules. That just doesn't make sense. Why charge different entry fees and payout more when all three divisions are exactly the same?? That's why I like the cull for AM and no cull for Pro.

Some of the reason behind equal rules was to allow the average weekend warrior to compete against A pro boat that can easily catch a full limit in a weekend. The open division will fall under a different guideline as far as weather cancellations from what I know. In south havens history pro boats wanted to fish when days wrere canceled....its up to the team to pay the fee for bigger payouts if they want. The no cull catch 2 man dnr and weigh 1 man dnr in my opinion makes it fair for all....lucky fish and knowing how to find the big ones makes it fun. A different kind of strategy in fishing than pure numbers.....think about it.

Edited May 15, 2012 by 2UNREEL
spelling

[Twill23]

Well, the issue with the limit catches in an amateur division is cheating. I'm not saying everyone who fishes is willing to cheat to win. But let's face it, there are people who do it. Pro boats have observers to MAKE SURE they dont pass their limit, while amateur boats do not. Having a no limit, cull tournament cuts out the possibility of cheating vs say a catch 15 tournament.

[fishy1]

First let me state I don't fish tournaments as I feel they are just pecker measuring contests, with that said even when using a fixed limit such as 12 fish you still have people who cheat. A good example is a well known boat out of saugatuck the was observed agressivly trying to net small fish that seeming to keep getting knocked off while fishing the Ludington pro division resulting in them losing thier first place finish. One thing I have learned in my 52 yrs on earth is if you put money and egos together people will do really stupid stuff to prove thier the man.

[Just Hook'n]

I think you guys know my opinion - it was stated last year.

I like the tournaments that weigh more because I think the really good fishing teams show up at the top of the leader board. I'm in favor of the catch 15 weigh 10 or 12 events. This gives you some room to not count a few shakers or small fish if you get into them. The really good teams can catch 15 consistently and quite honestly I have no problem "donating" my money to them. They deserve it. They have worked hard to get where they are. The problem I have with the weigh 5 events is that the majority of the field catches five fish, then you are just seperating boats by ounces caught not fish numbers. Sure there are some events where 5 fish would be a great day (due to conditions), but I think you guys get the drift. I like the 3 man rod limit, 3 man fish limit, weigh 10 or 12. Just seem to make the most sense to me. BUT, just my opinion.

Edited May 16, 2012 by GLF Mobile
Removed unnecessary comment

[SCUM LINE]

PRETTY SIMPLE

No cull all the fish dies that are caught (hundreds and hundreds)

Let a hundred go and if 10 die u still have 90 more fish than u would with out the cull

[jay d]

i dont fish tournaments but on the catch and release thing,we caught a lacker with a floy tag last year.this fish was part of a mortality rate study for catch and release fish in lk huron done by dnr fishery bilogist.i had quite a long talk with him about catch and release of salmon and trout.by their findings what kils most of the fish is not being hooked or loosing scales,its being in the net and pounding their heads on the floor or whatever the fish is laid on in the net.we release most of our fish with out netting,if we do net them we do not let them thrash themselves in the net.we release about 20 this weekend:thumb:d

[fishy1]

Mark, I was just pointing out a fact of how greed and money turn normally sane people into idiots just to fill there egos,sorry you took it personally but stating a fact from my knowledge of just one of several tournaments that cheating was reported I'm not telling anyone how to run a tournament just stating my observation on no matter what type of rules you have people will still try to gain a edge even with observers onboard.

[Treblemaker]

Well, the issue with the limit catches in an amateur division is cheating. I'm not saying everyone who fishes is willing to cheat to win. But let's face it, there are people who do it. Pro boats have observers to MAKE SURE they dont pass their limit, while amateur boats do not. Having a no limit, cull tournament cuts out the possibility of cheating vs say a catch 15 tournament.

This comment is true. With the weigh 5 tournaments they need to adopt at least a 3 man limit (15 fish) if they want to do a no cull. With a catch 10, weigh 5 the honest teams quit when they get their 10, but in the am div there is no way to enforce that except on day 2 with an observer on that boat. At least if it is 15 fish or culling is allowed the playing field is more even than a 10 and done format.

All unenforceable rules do is keep honest teams honest. Get rid of them all IMO.

[Just Hook'n]

Gord you are right about one thing, and I'll be the first to admit it on our boat.

Fisherman + tournament = idiot.

We do some pretty dumb stuff on the boat during tournament time.

Stuff we certainly would not do (waves wise) during non tournament times.

[Reel Bucks]

The alleged cheating incident in Ludington would have been avoided if the rules allowed for the culling of fish. Take a look at a 333TV episode from up north (no cull tourney) and watch how slow some teams are to get the net when they know they have a small fish on. I saw one episode where the team held the fish at the back of the boat while one guy walked over, got a net, walked back, and then scooped it. That is cheating in my opinion. That is not as most tournament rules state, "Every effort made to catch the fish." They did this with a camera on boat, imagine what happens when nobody is looking. No cull equals cheating. Plus, it also takes a lot of skill out of the equation.

We need an observer for every boat! Where there is money, there is greed and cons. No cull gives these people one easy area to cheat in.

[Just Hook'n]

The only problem with observers on every boat (and I'm not saying I am against it) is that some boats are not big enough to hold their crew plus observers.

We are finally up to the size where an observer would be feasible, but we just got there.

On all of our previous boats it would have meant sacrificing a spot of a valued team member to hold an observer.

But this is a good topic - how do we make it better - not exactly sure.

[Ace HI]

No cull you caught you keep it if it is a legal fish this is not bass fishing. Ban cheaters for life and trhey will stop cheating better yet put them in jail and ban them. Cheating to win money is fraud cheating to win thousands of dollars is felony fraud enforce it a few times and see what happens. Anyone who has ever fished the big lake knows full well you seldom catch 15 fish and 12 or more are big fish. Some of the BS that goes on is why I don't fish them anymore.

[adrenalin]

I'm sure this wont be popular but I have released thousands and thousands of salmon over the years. I've let over 30 fish go in a tournament more than once. I don't think they all die. If you shake the hook out with a pliers at the back of the boat, how is that any different than if they fall off 10 feet behind the boat?? I think people get to worked up over this stuff, especially seeing their is no proof that they are dieing when released anyhow. If you don't eat them or have anyone to give them to, your just not supposed to go fishing???

[EdB]

You can safely release salmon and trout with good judgment. When you're popping them off the back with pliers and not netting them when lip hooked, no problem. If fish are slamming and burying hooks in the gills and you're going to be throwing back bleeders with their gills ripped out, or the surface is 78 degrees and the kings you're dropping are going belly up, you should probably take your limit and quit fishing that day. If someone was in a tourney and doing it, than that's sad and says a lot of bad about them. Ethical sportsman make the right decision based on the circumstances above.

[Ace HI]

Part of the reason behind no cull is back in the day you would have 80 to 100 or more boats in a few of the events with many of them prefishing a couple days before. Now picture 60 or more boats hitting your port for a week and pounding the fish and very few of them were nice about their releases it was at times a pure slaughter of a fishing port. So as complaint mounted they made a no cull rule which created cheaters well there were cheaters before but that is another point. The real point is if you don't like the rules don't fish and if you can't win without cheating than lose. Anyone who can't understand a simple no cull rule should not enter but instead we have a couple of teams who lawyer up and threaten to sue so they keep on fishing and winning. Some serious role models there don't you think? The issue of survival rate has nothing to do with it any team that can't figure out how to net a shaker but never miss's a nice king is cheating.