Badger car ferry gets grant to explore fuel conversion

[News]

The Wisconsin State Energy Office has awarded a $75,000 grant to begin the engineering work for converting the S.S. Badger car ferry from using coal as its fuel source to liquefied natural gas.

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[fishy1]

Badger Bob is all for the conversion as long as someone else will pay for it thats the business model.

[danthebuilder]

What else has to be done. They said this was the first step. What are the other steps?

[Nailer]

It's a non stop game to spend the tax payers money, with the Badger.

[EdB]

If the EPA would get off their back, wouldn't need to spend taxpayer dollars. There is far more damage to the great lakes from agricultural run off and sewage overflows from cities but that is all OK.

[fishy1]

Maybe if they learned how to run a business they wouldn't need my tax dollars , there is no need for the senseless pollution and dumping of 500-700 tons of mecury laden ash in OUR lake , last I checked it belonged to all of the residents of the great lakes not just a wealthy buisness owner. I find it amazing how people want to defend the mighty Badger under the guise of all the jobs that would be losthow is it that a company was able to have a ferry built that is more enviromently friendly and be successful in Muskegon but the owner of the badger isn't smart enough to do likewise.

[danthebuilder]

If the EPA would get off their back, wouldn't need to spend taxpayer dollars. There is far more damage to the great lakes from agricultural run off and sewage overflows from cities but that is all OK.

Most cities with sewage overflows have it only happen during times of heavy rains. The badger pollutes as its normal business. That's a huge difference. The cities weren't designed to handle this many people and the consideration of heavy rains & overflows were overlooked. The system wasn't designed to just dump sewage into the lake every single day and currently they don't.

Many cities want this problem fixed. Its not good tourism to shut down your beaches on the 4th of July weekend because of sewage overflow! That happened in South Haven! If there was an easy fix such as slapping a new engine in a boat. They'd be all over that. Obviously its not so easy to fix sewage overflow problems. You've got to tear up every road to add a separate system to divert the rainwater or/and build a bigger waste management system. Very very expensive. It needs to be done and everyone agrees on that but it just has to be done overtime.

There is also technology that some bigger cities are setting up & testing that will re-divert waters within the system. If it rains heavy on only one part of town. It will setup gates to put water in the system where it didn't rain. This slows the flow so the sewage treatment plant can keep up a little better. Everyone is looking for the cheapest solution possible.

[EdB]

Private investors risked their own money to bring the Badger out of mothballs and launch this business. When they risked their money and launched the business, they were in full compliance and met all environemental regulations. The ship has been a huge boom to the economies on both sides of the lake. The local people who live around the Badger want it in their communities.

Then the Feds change the rules forcing huge costs on this private enterprise that can put it out of buisness. It is perfect example of the current administrations war on private enterprise and why the economy is struggling. After 4 years of it, very few people can say they are better off now. If the Feds are going to change the rules and impose a huge cost on this business, than they should pay for some or all of it.

The coal ash dumped from the Badger is not devastating our lakes. 1000's of ships powered this way plied the great lakes for over a century with no lasting damage or impact. You can't show me any evidence of problems caused by the Badger. There are many other sources of pollution that have a much larger impact on the lakes the Feds ignore. The city of Grand Rapids causes more annual pollution to the lakes than the Badger and there are dozens of other cities doing the same. If the cities want their pollution fixed, why aren't the Feds forcing this to happen. They can raise local taxes to fix it. It's Ok to allow that pollution to continue but the Feds are going to imposes regulations and cost and force a private enterprise out of business. The Feds ignore asian carp and they will be in our lakes soon due to no action. They will bring some true devastation. I'm all for converting the Badger to natural gas but it should not be done in a way that forces it out of business.

Edited April 5, 2012 by EdB

[Play Dough]

The conversion is not being done in a way that would force it out of business. That is hapening due to the inactivity by LMC. The EPA notified LMC in 2008 that they needed to be in compliance in 2012 (actually the 2013 sailing season). That is 5 years of little action. LMC has stonewalled and attempted to avoid compliance through legislation. Once it became clear that the legislative path wasn't going to pan out, they began to cry foul and whine about a lack of time to implement a plan.

I enjoy the Badger and do hope that a way is found to keep it in operation. I would even support an extension of the deadline so long as a timeline is established to bring the ship into compliance. It is my understanding that a plan was presented to LMC by DTE Energy that would have had the Badger running on CNG this year. That plan was rejected due to cost.

Using your reasoning, I should be able to dump my holding tank overboard because Grand Rapids has a much higher impact dumping waste into the watershed. That's a ridiculous position. The Badger dumping coal ash slurry into Lake Michigan probably isn't the end of the world but power plants are being fined huge sums for doing the very same thing (accidently). It all adds up and needs to be cleaned up one issue at a time.

Bottom line is that I hope the Badger continues to run and either cleans up its operation or produces a timeline that provides a date when that will occur, although I do respect your opinion and understand the desire of the community to see the Badger continue to sail.

[EdB]

Using your reasoning, I should be able to dump my holding tank overboard because Grand Rapids has a much higher impact dumping waste into the watershed. That's a ridiculous position. The Badger dumping coal ash slurry into Lake Michigan probably isn't the end of the world but power plants are being fined huge sums for doing the very same thing (accidently).

You have my reasoning wrong. I am not advocating any new pollution to the great lakes.

When the Badger was put in commission, it met all EPA regulations. The EPA changed their standards and it became an issue. Why should that change impose millions of dollars of add'l cost to the business and put them out of business. That is what I disagree with. Even a 5 year timeline is unreasonable. The Badger is not some money machine making huge profits. It is not much better than a break even operation. They don't have millions of dollars laying around to completely change their engines. They are not like a utility company that can just raise rates with the blessing of regulators and recover all costs imposed by the EPA. In a case like a private business like the Badger, if the government wants to impose new regulations that negatively impact their finanacial position, they should subsidize those regulatory costs or grandfather the Badger and impose the rules to prevent other coal fired operations from starting up. If the Badger was leaving some scum line across the lake when she crossed, I'd be on my soapbox screaming it should be stopped but its impact is truly negligible.

If the EPA decided gas powered engines should not be allowed on recreational fishing boats and told us we all had five years to spend our money changing our boats to natural gas, would you be happy and glad to do it? Keep in mind there are no natural gas engines made for rec fishing boats, just like there aren't any for ships like the Badger. Our cost would quadruple because we'd all have to pay to design and develop a natural gas engine for our boats. Or we could just scrap our investments.

I'm not for more pollution to the great lakes and I do feel the Federal government does have a role in regulating industry to protect our resources. I just don't agree with how the EPA is handling this. I do respect your postion too. I know you speak with a passion for our Great Lakes. Probably just have to agree to disagree on this one. Tight lines and good fishing to you.

[Play Dough]

Agreed. It's a complex issue when you try to balance environment with commerce. Don't know if there is a "right" answer. Certainly not one that will satisfy every interest.