Walleye slot limits?

[Priority1]

This has been a good thread. As far as predators go I have caught Northerns on the Bay longer than my pant legs. Talk about eating machines. I never seem to hook up any hammer handles. We don't target the Pike but baby a quite a few to the boat on harnesses every year. The Bay has a ton of trophy Pike that seldom get targeted. The bass also take a back seat to walleye and they are plentiful in the bay. So far I'm still leaning towards leave the Bay fishing rules as is.

[WALRANGER5]

I have followed this post and have to disagree with a slot limit helping our situation in the time frame that is needed. Creating more predator size of fish will take way to long by using a slot limit. I fish the bay on average a dozen times a year, and I have to say we catch our limit almost every time out. In the last four years, give or take a couple, I have put very few large walleye in the boat. I know the fish are out there, just not as common for me. So out of the few hundred walleye we catch, very few would ever make it back in the water using a slot limit. This method would only affect and be helpful to the guys that are more fortunate to catch these larger fish on a regular basis . So with that thought in mind not everyone can contribute to help our situation. But what can affect and allow every person that fish these waters to help, would be to close the season a little longer and allow more of the larger predator size fish to remain in the system. It is very common to catch a limit of these size fish during the spawning times. If having more predator size fish is the answer, then I would much rather give up a few weeks of river fishing to allow these fish to live another day. I believe we could save more fish in three weeks during spawning time then we could all year with a slot limit. This was mentioned in this post already by some one else and I think it is our best chance for all of us to help.

Forgive me if I didn't splain it right. It's not about larger predators, it's about number of predators, small walleyes would be great Asian Carp predators. The slot protects the females/egg factories. MDNR more eggs ecological safety factor. They give the slot limit the credit for great fishing in Bay denoc. MDNR special report 41 Prevent quality overfishing. Prevent economic overfishing. Prevent community overfishing! Any restrictions on us is a good thing. Closing the season more sure, as one biologist put it "no matter when you catch a fish, at spawn time or otherwise, it's still out of the game" Low number of females threaten spawn success, tons of studies about that. The slot lets someone keep the wallhanger if they get one. Keeping more native fish/predators in the game is the plan. Just because we can keep them doesn't mean we should. You leave one hole for the Asian carp to spawn in they will.

[WALRANGER5]

Josh, I feel the same way. I'm thinking not only close the season a touch longer but expand the area to include the Bay:). I know some areas on the Bay where its slaughter time in late March and early April. I don't partake in that. Most of the fish I catch between Late April and August are the 17-22inch fish. I like it like that.

i agree, add a slot limit, can only help protect the fish. I read where a couple lakes in Canada are closed every other year to give nature a break from us!

[WALRANGER5]

I am not for or against slot limits. I just haven't seen anything in this thread that connects the dots with Asian carp management. Slot limits are used to increase trophy fish and boost spawning efforts. Neither of those things are lacking on Saginaw Bay. The Bay is full of walleye now, granted mostly 13-22 inch variety, but all sizes are out there including state record size fish. There are plenty of walleye to eat any new bait, including asian carp. If you think that only trophy fish eat bait, then why do I have to beat away the 13" eyes from biting a Reef Runner 800 in the spring, or a Streak Standard all summer long? Like I said, I am always open to the idea of slots for the right reason. Lets keep the two issues seperate like they should be. Fighting Asian Carp is seperate from slot limits on walleye in Saginaw Bay. Saginaw Bay has no shortage of predators, it does have a shortage of baitfish. Fighting Asian Carp is a very important issue, all will agree on that front. I just don't see any evidence to convince me that slot limits on walleye will do anything for that in Saginaw Bay.

As the Feds say "it would just one more tool in the box" lack of predators is repeated over and over as the cause for all invasives thriving, we fished them out. Google (common carp control using predators), tons of stuff. The most vulnerable time for all fish is surviving the spawn, this includes the Asian Carp. when the bay kicks up, people can't fish. Say we get a season, beautiful weather every day, word gets out (already out) high fishing pressure, lots of fish gonna die! We can't count on bad wheather giving the fish a break. A slot limit is a constant benefit to the fish we can control. The "barriers" will not stop the Asian Carp.

[WALRANGER5]

This has been a good thread. As far as predators go I have caught Northerns on the Bay longer than my pant legs. Talk about eating machines. I never seem to hook up any hammer handles. We don't target the Pike but baby a quite a few to the boat on harnesses every year. The Bay has a ton of trophy Pike that seldom get targeted. The bass also take a back seat to walleye and they are plentiful in the bay. So far I'm still leaning towards leave the Bay fishing rules as is.

My friend likes hitting the smallies getting fat on gobies. I'm not talking just the bay, but all of Michigan. I look at the success stories from all over, slot limits are pretty simple, free, and you still get to fish. If the Asian Carp start spawning in lake Michigan, they will spread to Huron en masse, reverse of what the alewives did. We can't let them get a foothold anywhere, once they get too big, they live 25+ years, plenty of time to find a boyfriend, and that special moment! Keeping native fish populations high, makes the lakes useless to them, or at least difficult to survive in. Biotic resistance they call it, not my idea, I just agree with them, because it agrees with how nature works, predatory prey balance. Saginaw Bay was out of balance, alewives controled the spawn, and the Walleye population, and they don't grow too big. Restoring the Walleyes fixed that. There's a lot of guys don't know how to count when they get to Saginaw bay, they plan on catching all they can, a slot would put some restraint on them, at least protect the female spawners, to replace what they stole!

[cary mac]

I love to walleye fish the spring run in Detroit. I have seen hundreds of boats in the river and have seen many 10-12lb females put into the live well. I don't know what causes the different ups and downs of the invasive and native fish population but it does seem that a closing of the season for a few weeks during prime spawning would only help our fishery. The females have spawned out by mid april and the river is full of good eating size walleye. I can't say if slot limits would work but allowing the fish to spawn out should put more fish in the water I would think. It could probably help with alot of our animal population to allow nature to do it's think instead of us. Just a thought.

[jballer]

Walranger5, you have some very valid opinions on this slot limit , and I do agree that it works in a lot of places. But if having more larger size walleye will help our situation, then I believe that letting the spawners do there thing longer would be more affective then a slot limit. These fish are easy pickins during those times. We all no they are much harder to find as the season goes on and probably have a higher survival rate once they are out of the rivers. I don't believe a slot limit on walleye will help stop the asian carp problem. Lake huron, saginaw bay has a very strong and healthy fishery. Frank has brought up a good point about the large pike and bass we have in these waters. I know when targeted you can catch a lot of these fish with some very large ones mixed in. So with a lot of different species at large I think a slot limit on walleye would have very little effect on these carp. For every upside there is always a down side when changes are made and limits are created, only time would tell what that would be. I am all for a change when it is needed, I don't believe this is one of them. We need to look into other ways to stop these fish, rather than tamper with the ones we have.

[Priority1]

This thread was started in the Saginaw Bay Forum. WALRANGER5 (Tom), and others are talking about a larger area. There is nothing wrong with what has been posted in this thread and I just wanted to clarify that. What needs to be said no mater the forum title is OK.

Like mentioned above there are times when the big spawners are vulnerable. I know it's legal but taking several 27 to 32 inch fish full of eggs is not moral. Closing the season from mid March until the last Saturday in April, including the Bay, would help. A closed season would be easier to enforce than slots. Moral values differ and I will not try and force mine on others. In spite of the big female take in late Winter early Spring the Bay seems to keep giving year after year. Natural reproduction has forced the DNR to eliminate planting in the past. It's all a delicate balance that I'm still not totally convinced needs messing with.

My posts have been focused on the Saginaw Bay. I have fished the Bay for 60 years +-. I'm an old dog that is always open to new tricks. I just wanted it clear that my post are about the bay. The pendulum swings. Like in the 80s we will have a mix of bigger fish in the future. I'm keeping an open mind. Gotta Luv Dat Bay, Lord knows I do.

[WALRANGER5]

I love to walleye fish the spring run in Detroit. I have seen hundreds of boats in the river and have seen many 10-12lb females put into the live well. I don't know what causes the different ups and downs of the invasive and native fish population but it does seem that a closing of the season for a few weeks during prime spawning would only help our fishery. The females have spawned out by mid april and the river is full of good eating size walleye. I can't say if slot limits would work but allowing the fish to spawn out should put more fish in the water I would think. It could probably help with alot of our animal population to allow nature to do it's think instead of us. Just a thought.

We used to go to Detroit every spring loved it, had a good time, met some great people, even won some money in the Pro-am once. But I have no love for traffic in Detroit, and Saginaw is closer. Allowing Females to spawn more than once a lifetime is in DNR studies, one excuse the DNR uses is cost, slot limit is free.

[WALRANGER5]

Walranger5, you have some very valid opinions on this slot limit , and I do agree that it works in a lot of places. But if having more larger size walleye will help our situation, then I believe that letting the spawners do there thing longer would be more affective then a slot limit. These fish are easy pickins during those times. We all no they are much harder to find as the season goes on and probably have a higher survival rate once they are out of the rivers. I don't believe a slot limit on walleye will help stop the asian carp problem. Lake huron, saginaw bay has a very strong and healthy fishery. Frank has brought up a good point about the large pike and bass we have in these waters. I know when targeted you can catch a lot of these fish with some very large ones mixed in. So with a lot of different species at large I think a slot limit on walleye would have very little effect on these carp. For every upside there is always a down side when changes are made and limits are created, only time would tell what that would be. I am all for a change when it is needed, I don't believe this is one of them. We need to look into other ways to stop these fish, rather than tamper with the ones we have.

Not trying to be a wise apple, I spent a lot of time breaking down these studies and asking biologists a lot of questions. Some studies you need the biologist secret decoder ring for, but with a Dik-sun-ary and a little help from Google, you can figure them out. Basic rules apply to everything, all these studies and facts, keep leading back to the same conclusion "lack of predators" this is not we don't have any, it's "lacking enough" the problem dictates the solution, every time. It's becoming very clear that we cannot control where Asian Carp go, but we can control how many predators they run into. Barriers only provide control in one spot, in Minnesota one proposed barrier they admit will just deflect them west. The new fast plan costs $3billion and take 10 years, the carp will be in Canada in 10 years! We have 180+ invasives and more coming they say, you can all see how the politics thing is working out. We have no control over politics either. We can't blame invasives they're just doing what nature programmed them to do, we are the only ones with a choice of actions. Hundreds of studies peer reveiwed by hundreds of biologists tell us what to do. Seems to be basic fish biology 101, for any fishery, or any fish. In 2004 they were warned that the temporary barrier would be useless in a year, they did nothing, there's no doubt in my mind the carp are in the lake. Many areas they didn't even know they were there, until they spawned. Once they spawn it goes fast, if you don't have enough predators. Predator levels control the spawn of most all fish, documented over and over, Saginaw Bay NO1 example. What we think a lot of Walleyes are, is probably just a fraction of how many were here before, we got here. We have a variable/defect in our system, (invasive species) that affects recruitment/spawn survival, they're winning because they have the numbers. The main reason they have the numbers is we don't want them, so they get no pressure from us. Native fish do. Slot limit may be a small thing, but every little bit helps. Check the ASIAN CARP SPREAD MAP USGS. then tell me we have asian carp under control. We have options it's our fault if we don't use them.

[WALRANGER5]

This thread was started in the Saginaw Bay Forum. WALRANGER5 (Tom), and others are talking about a larger area. There is nothing wrong with what has been posted in this thread and I just wanted to clarify that. What needs to be said no mater the forum title is OK.

Like mentioned above there are times when the big spawners are vulnerable. I know it's legal but taking several 27 to 32 inch fish full of eggs is not moral. Closing the season from mid March until the last Saturday in April, including the Bay, would help. A closed season would be easier to enforce than slots. Moral values differ and I will not try and force mine on others. In spite of the big female take in late Winter early Spring the Bay seems to keep giving year after year. Natural reproduction has forced the DNR to eliminate planting in the past. It's all a delicate balance that I'm still not totally convinced needs messing with.

My posts have been focused on the Saginaw Bay. I have fished the Bay for 60 years +-. I'm an old dog that is always open to new tricks. I just wanted it clear that my post are about the bay. The pendulum swings. Like in the 80s we will have a mix of bigger fish in the future. I'm keeping an open mind. Gotta Luv Dat Bay, Lord knows I do.

Thanks Frank, I'm not trying to force anything on anybody either, the Feds the DNR asked for suggestions, and a retired FWS biologist told me if Asian Carp get in the lake to sell my boat! I don't want to sell my boat! Saginaw Bay WAS a prime spawning/ nursery area for the Alewives, Asian carp eat the same thing as alewives, (zooplankton) and zebra mussels, and can root in the mud for food, and larval fish to boot. The mussels and gobies etc... got thier start in the connecting waters, then spread inland, watch your bait buckets and bilge is a prudent thing to do. But it doesn't reduce invasive numbers, and hasn't seemed to slow them down much either. Reducing thier numbers, reduces the chances of transfer no matter how, boats, birds bait whatever. From Common caro control studies "In areas where carp have not yet reached a nuisance level, a dense predator base should be maintained to provide a high level of predation on young carp" Once asian carp get too big they are invulnerable to predators, if Saginaw bay gets full of adult Asian carp, they will control all the zooplankton down to micro size that only they can survive on. And any spawn is lunch (larval fish) protein is protein, got that from a Chinese expert guy, and "our" Asian Carp expert thinks so too, but he wants to do a study, of course he does. 100 pounds of Asian Carp adults could be just 2 fish, 100 pounds of eggs,fry or juveniles is million taken out before they get too big. But they can't eat em, if they ain't there, and that's what started the whole problem, overfishing and lack of predators.

[WALRANGER5]

Fun Fact, Came out yesterday, Illinois wants to make it legal, to shoot flyin carp, license required of course, starting in 2013. Now flyin carp skeet will probably be a blast, but will it help anything really? Just like commercial fishing, you have to wait until they're big enough to have any value. The big flaw is letting them get big on purpose, for a vary limited use/customer base.

Turn the eggs fry and juveniles into Walleyes and Perch/predators then you got something!

Bubbas with guns and fast boats, no worrys there!

[WALRANGER5]

Well, a little light on comments. Alright Gentlemen, it's very simple. Duane Chapman, US Asian Carp expert, says "Asian Carp are the most efficient filter feeders in the world" this has been proven many times over. We had a filter feeder (planktivore) get into the lake once before. This fish overran and dominated the lakes and the native fish populations. It changed it's feeding/spawning habits as well. It did not grow to big for predators and only spawned once a year, yet was in control. Lack of predators (overfishing) was given as the main reason this invasive species took over. This fish was called alewife. Whether Asian Carp get a foothold in Lake Michigan or Erie/Huron all will be affected. Illinois seems to be gearing up to keep them, commercial fishing/skeet etc.. It's not hard to see what's going to happen.

If you would like to help, google GLMRIS find the comment on controls, and please put restore native predators stock predators, or whatever words you like. They just sent me the last chance to comment notice, ends Feb 17th, ask your friends and neoghbors as well. Lake Michigan is wide open to be overrun, thus ground zero to spread to huron/saginaw bay. We can win this fight if we work together, and we have to win this fight!

[danthebuilder]

If you would like to help, google GLMRIS find the comment on controls

Everytime you tell us to google something I end up finding nothing but your comments on other websites saying the exact same thing. Can you do us all a favor and just link us to where you're talking about?

[Priority1]

Everytime you tell us to google something I end up finding nothing but your comments on other websites saying the exact same thing. Can you do us all a favor and just link us to where you're talking about?

Dan, When I Googled it I found a quite a bit of stuff. Lets try and keep it light and positive.

A few Links.

http://www.freshwaterfuture.org/userfiles/file/GLMRIS%20Public%20Comment%20Period%20Fact%20Sheet.pdf

http://greatlakesenvironment.blogspot.com/2011/04/chicago-buffalo-glmris-scoping-meeting.html

http://www.asiancarp.us/news/glmrisschedule.htm

[WALRANGER5]

Everytime you tell us to google something I end up finding nothing but your comments on other websites saying the exact same thing. Can you do us all a favor and just link us to where you're talking about?

I'm sorry I do not know how to paste, my son has tried to teach me, when I try it goes who knows where. But I don't understand, when I google GLMRIS the site is at the top of the page, along with other GLMRIS related stuff just like any google search. Googling biotic-resistance or carp control for example gives lists of many studies. Forgive me if I explained it wrong. Googling for me is much quicker than typing the entire address. With respect, google GLMRIS them click on the GLMRIS site, no offence intended. I'm not that user friendly with computers, simple is all I know.

[WALRANGER5]

Dan, When I Googled it I found a quite a bit of stuff. Lets try and keep it light and positive.

A few Links.

http://www.freshwaterfuture.org/userfiles/file/GLMRIS%20Public%20Comment%20Period%20Fact%20Sheet.pdf

http://greatlakesenvironment.blogspot.com/2011/04/chicago-buffalo-glmris-scoping-meeting.html

http://www.asiancarp.us/news/glmrisschedule.htm

What he said! It's very simple fellas, if Alewives, gobies, zebra mussels etc... invasives that never grow too big, are safe from predators in Lake Michigan, then Asian Carp are extremley safe in lake Michigan. The feds admit that we do have predators for Asian Carp, and restoring native predators does not interfere with any other Asian Carp plans. This is on record Saginaw Meeting. Since the FWS is already planting Asian Carp predators down south, we don't have to wait 10 years, to do something, and the worst thing that could happen, is more native fish! If barriers and rayguns don't work, we get a giant carp pond and beyond!

[WALRANGER5]

I E-mailed Jim Garvey Asian carp biologist yesterday, and asked him how many 3 inch Asian Carp would be in a pound. He passed me to Dave Glover Fisheries & Illinois Aquaculture Center, and he said 118.

So 10 pounds would be 1,180 fish a 10 pound adult is one! So harvesting/removing 3 inch is a 1000 times more effective at reducing the Asian Carp population versus adult removal. Predators eating eggs and fry and 3 inch, millions of times more effective? A 10 pound Asian Carp is a small one!

[danthebuilder]

Have you talked to the DNR and asked them if they are planting more predator fish between where the asian carp are now and lake Michigan? or in Southern Lake Michigan? How much do you think they need to plant and what will the cost be? What will the increase in these fish be sustainable?

[WALRANGER5]

Have you talked to the DNR and asked them if they are planting more predator fish between where the asian carp are now and lake Michigan? or in Southern Lake Michigan? How much do you think they need to plant and what will the cost be? What will the increase in these fish be sustainable?

I've been dealing with the DNR for the last 7 years, can't get a permit. 2 groups one from Wisconsin, one from Illinois have been trying to Restore the Perch for over 25 years,can't get a permit. The DNR's are increasing the alewives, there is no predator restoration. If you look at the results of the last 40 years, invasive species wise, we are going backwards, invasives are increasing, new ones surviving. Currently we couldn't plant enough native predators, Perch, walleye Pike and Muskie, unlimited invasive food out there. If I understand the biotic-resistance principle correctly, and I believe I do. The amount of invasive species control you get is only limited by how many native predators you use. If we ever had too many native fish,(a long way away) you just increase the limit. My fish farmer says we can raise millions of 2 inch Perch for $200. buck in a 3 acre pond. I would sponser 5 ponds myself. We can use this same this for walleyes as well. At 2 inches most native fish are past the need for zooplankton, and the invasives become the food, Ohio DNR figured that out. Very doable, there's millions in tackle tax money for native fish restoration, a slot limit and lower Perch limit would help keep high levels in place, (sustainable) as I said very doable. It's obvious we can't control where the Asian Carp go, but we can control how many predators they run into, or how much biotic-resistance they find. Hard to survive a spawn in a crowd! Follow me?

[danthebuilder]

Does the DNR say why they're denying you a permit? Isn't there some backdoor way. Start a "perch in the classroom" only have it in a pond and have it have a million perch in there?

[danthebuilder]

I found the permit and there are a million emails in there for different regions in Michigan. Have you emailed/called people in all these areas? Perhaps if you can get 1 area to allow you to do this you can pressure the other areas to follow suit. "we're just trying to do what the southwest Michigan district has been doing to combat asian carp"

For others:

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/PrivateFishStockingPermitProcess_49511_7.pdf

It seems like if you filed a permit and crossed your T's and dotted your I's. You could call the attorney general. Your local congressman. The local fishing groups and ask them to do the same. You could probably get that permit pushed through.

It seems in their Permit request has main three things they care about.

1. Making sure what you import is healthy.

It seems like you'd have to pay a health inspector to come examine your fish. Doesn't seem like that big of a deal.

2. Making sure what you import already exists in the lake.

(perch,walleye,pike) all do so you're already set.

3. a species that is compatible with the overall fishery management goals in a watershed.

I think this is the big hold up. "fishery management goals in the watershed" What are their goals? Lately, in Lake Michigan. They decreased the salmon plants to increase the health of the salmon population & the amount of bait fish. This is exactly the opposite of what you want to do. You want to plant the predators.

I think it wouldn't be too tough to write a proposal, Put it up on a website. Pass it around fishery group. Ask people to endorse it. Pass it around. Ask people to contact every congressman, The attorney general, governor, sister states/other groups. Get everyone on board with switching up the goal of the watershed.

I would also point out. That its tough to point your finger at Chicago and say "close the locks" when we aren't doing the simple things we should be doing to protect our lakes even if the locks are closed and they do get through. You could write some newspapers / news and apply some pressure that way to the DNR to push your permits through.

[WALRANGER5]

Does the DNR say why they're denying you a permit? Isn't there some backdoor way. Start a "perch in the classroom" only have it in a pond and have it have a million perch in there?

Not enough food, slow growth, PCB, etc... many excuses that mean nothing The DNR said many times it was against the 1836 treaty as an excuse. At the MDNR Asian Carp meeting in Lansing, I asked the head Indian Derek Bailey if restoring native fish was against the 1836 treaty, and he said it wasn't. And even tho I announced that fact at the end of the meeting, during comments, for all to hear. My last permit request was rejected, and against the treaty was yet again among the excuses. The DNR's very first excuse was the marinas took all the weeds, Perch need weeds, true story. Edited February 19, 2012 by WALRANGER5
Treaty

[WALRANGER5]

I found the permit and there are a million emails in there for different regions in Michigan. Have you emailed/called people in all these areas? Perhaps if you can get 1 area to allow you to do this you can pressure the other areas to follow suit. "we're just trying to do what the southwest Michigan district has been doing to combat asian carp"

For others:

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/PrivateFishStockingPermitProcess_49511_7.pdf

It seems like if you filed a permit and crossed your T's and dotted your I's. You could call the attorney general. Your local congressman. The local fishing groups and ask them to do the same. You could probably get that permit pushed through.

It seems in their Permit request has main three things they care about.

1. Making sure what you import is healthy.

It seems like you'd have to pay a health inspector to come examine your fish. Doesn't seem like that big of a deal.

2. Making sure what you import already exists in the lake.

(perch,walleye,pike) all do so you're already set.

3. a species that is compatible with the overall fishery management goals in a watershed.

I think this is the big hold up. "fishery management goals in the watershed" What are their goals? Lately, in Lake Michigan. They decreased the salmon plants to increase the health of the salmon population & the amount of bait fish. This is exactly the opposite of what you want to do. You want to plant the predators.

I think it wouldn't be too tough to write a proposal, Put it up on a website. Pass it around fishery group. Ask people to endorse it. Pass it around. Ask people to contact every congressman, The attorney general, governor, sister states/other groups. Get everyone on board with switching up the goal of the watershed.

I would also point out. That its tough to point your finger at Chicago and say "close the locks" when we aren't doing the simple things we should be doing to protect our lakes even if the locks are closed and they do get through. You could write some newspapers / news and apply some pressure that way to the DNR to push your permits through.

We have already done all this and more. Wisconsin Perch guys were just rejected again with over 90% support. I gave you the real reason we can't get a permit. " The DNR's are increasing/protecting the alewives" you can't increase predators (biotic resistance) and increase an invasive species at the same time. You have to chose one or the other. They have chosen the other. Thus protecting the alewives has made lake Michigan a safe haven for all invasive species, the proof and results are in the lake, all invasives are increasing and spreading. Once Asian Carp grow to big they can live 25+ years, we have no choice but to attack the juveniles, not my idea, thier numbers, thier studies. Waiting until we have 4,300 Asian Carp per mile before we get excited, would be silly.

[WALRANGER5]

Alright gentlemen. Bottomline line is, there is 118 3 inch juvenile asian carp in a pound, 10 pounds of juveniles would be removing 1,180 invasive fish from the system. 10 pounds of adults is just one fish. So any efforts that target juvenile Asian carp would a thousand times more effective than harvesting pounds of adults. Using predators many times that. If we do this by the numbers, we can get them under control and keep them from becoming the dominate fish in the great lakes. Or we can do nothing and play, woulda,coulda, shoulda. Increasing/restoring the native/natural fish populations does not intefere with any other asian carp plans. We are asked to wait 5,10,even 20 years for various plans. They can argue about barriers, who gonna pay for what all day long, but that's going nowhere. There is no logical reason why we have to wait to pursue efforts the target, remove juvenile Asian Carp. Native predators is the most cost effective, and efficient method of reducing the Asian carp population. This would benefit everyone in the country not just this state. Or we can lose it all just because lake trout don't fight hard enough?