Walleye slot limits?

[WALRANGER5]

It's not only the DNR stating this FACT.

The DNR started it I believe, most just parrot the statement without asking questions. The facts are what we can see with our own eyes. All other native fish are coming back in Huron, without alewives and with zebra/quagga mussels, not seen in 40 years, documented by the MDNR and others. I do not see the mussels as a valid reason to explain what happened, I do see it as an excuse that holds no water. Regardless of what the DNR says, the results or truth does not match. But this is in the past, the alewives are gone, wont be back, we have new fish to fry heading our way, the worst invasive species of all. If invasive predator species can wipe out native fish, than native predator species can wipe them out back. Sufficient numbers is the key, slot limits help the home team stay in the game! No matter what size fish you keep,big or small that fish is out!

[JWheeler]

I could agree with you, however, that would mean we are both wrong

[JWheeler]

Interesting read about these muscles and how they wipe out the food chain from the bottom up.

Take a look

http://www.thenewsherald.com/articles/2012/01/20/news/doc4f19cdea38889842971812.txt

[WALRANGER5]

I could agree with you, however, that would mean we are both wrong

How so? Numbers is the key in all this,all fish invasive or not have no choice in the matter, we can't blame them, they feed and breed instinct. We are the only ones with a choice, to date our choices have been pretty poor. MDNR Special report 41 2007 page 8 No. 3 Prevent quality overfishing that is prevent excessive overharvest of large fish etc.... No4. Prevent ecomonic overfishing No.5 Prevent community overfishing ------- Prevent overfishing!

The legend overfishing allowed invasive species to thrive in the first place (lack of predators) caused by us. The Feds want everyone to be on hold until 2015-16 until thier asian carp study is done? We don't have to wait, we can restore our native fishery now. Waiting 5 years means the carp win, that is make it much harder to fix. Like you see down south now. We lose nothing with a slot limit, we gain all the way around, it just makes us more responsible, in our actions, that's all.

[WALRANGER5]

Interesting read about these muscles and how they wipe out the food chain from the bottom up.

Take a look

http://www.thenewsherald.com/articles/2012/01/20/news/doc4f19cdea38889842971812.txt

Yes sir the mussels eat food, all invasives eat food of some kind. Iv'e had this chat with Nalepa, and others. If you follow the Goby spread map, it matches the diappearance of the dipoeia, both timeline and area. Gobies normally grow to 5 inches, growing to 10 inches, high energy food? Goby at 200 per square yard, would eat mussels instead of shrimp? All these invasives are finding zooplankton, spiny fleas, bloody shrimp etc... Nonetheless, what they eat is a moot point, and wastes a lot of time. We know they eat, lets focus on getting rid of them, they're invasive. It's hard to find another body of water where the mussels wiped out any other fish "practically overnight" I can't find any. The mussels are a drain on the ecosystem, agreed, lets get rid of them. We have predators for the mussels, we need more. I asked David Jude Goby expert way back how Zebra mussels and Gobies are controled where they come from. He said Predators, pollution, and disease. Lets look at what David said, Disease is too random, waiting until they get too many and starve is a bad plan. For the last 20 some years we have been cleaning up pollution, most of these invasives have exploded in that time. That leaves predators, how many predators we have depends on our actions. Increase predators decrease invasive species. A little restraint on our part goes a long way.

[WALRANGER5]

In the Daily Egyptian, Jan 17 2012 (Asian Carp invade Illinois waterways) Jim Garvey part of the Fed team, made some statements, I would like to address. 5 key points. No1 " They grow rapidly it's hard for any predator or predatory fish to control them UNLESS they're abundantly present" This tells us they can be controlled, how to create sufficient numbers (abundant) is the issue, not how fast they grow. No2. "It's very expensive to produce enough predators to actually have a control on baby carp" Again this tells us they can be controlled, now it just cost. Slot limits, catch limits, spawning closures all free. Perch and Walleye can be raised cheaply without a fish hatchery, and there's millions of dollars of tackle tax money for restoration of native fish available, no GLMRIS money needed. No 3 Poison must be approved by the govenrment at tremendous cost". Poison cost tremendous everytime it's used and only affects one spot, Predators one time cost, kill invasive for many years. No 4/5 "The problem with poisoning and electric fences is that it's not very sustainable" Funding stops "whatever control" stops. We can't control where the fish go, but we can control how many predators they run into! The only true long term control. If anyone would like to paste that article please do, my computer has issues with pasting and i'm just barely user friendly

[WALRANGER5]

No comments, I hope I didn't scare y'all off. I just found out the Electric barrier in Chicago will now cost over $28,000 dollars per day in 2012.A Jump from $8 million to over $10 million per year. Keep in mind restoring native fish they can build all the barriers they want. Call it a plan B in case the "barriers" don't stop them. Truth is they let the carp go too long, we're stuck with them forever. There is no if they get in, we can keep thier numbers low with predators, having them in place before they get too big and abundant would be nice.

[WALRANGER5]

We started this 7 years ago, after 20 years of Perch contests, and nobody catching any Perch (Muskegon county), and after the DNR asked for suggestions on how to control zebra mussels and Gobies. Both the Ohio Dnr and Wisconsin Dnr had figured out the mussels and Goby controled most of the food until native fish reached 2 inches, the the gobies and mussels become the food. So the solution was simple, stock Perch at 2 inches. We cut a deal with a local fish farmer, 3, 2 inch Perch for a dollar. So a simple fund raiser, was all that was needed. I've had people offer me 100 dollar bills, to bring back the Perch. Contacted the DNR about a permit, and a long list of excuses, followed, first one was the marinas took out all the weeds, the Perch need to spawn, that's why we don't have Perch. They get worse (or stupider) from there. There are millions of dollars in studies already paid for, that were done so fisheries managers can make good decisions regarding our lakes. Most are ignored. The Asian Carp are the most dangerous, because they can grow to be invulnerable to predators, and have all the attributes needed to survive here. All baby fish have predators, this includes the carp, walleyes even eat juvenile lampreys, could they control them? Who knows, but they can help reduce them, which is what we're supposed to be doing. Lack of native predators allowed all invasives to thrive, this doesn't mean we don't have any, it means lacking enough. There is too much conflict of interest between stakeholders, we are all supposed to be doing what's best for the overall, ecosystem, that affects everyone, whether they fish or not.

[WALRANGER5]

The separate study about closing off the Chicago canal has been released, the cheap one is only $3 billion dollars, 4 more barriers can be built for a mere $140 million. This is just for one spot. We can't afford to let the government control the Asian carp. A high native fish/predator population, makes the entire lake a control, no matter how any invasive species gets in, it really is that simple.

[danthebuilder]

I don't understand why filling in part of a canal will cost $3 billion dollars?

[WALRANGER5]

I don't understand why filling in part of a canal will cost $3 billion dollars?

It always takes more "guvmint dollars" than regular dollars to do anything. Almost a million dollars for 1277 feet of chain link fence? $13 million for chain link fence to block over flo from the Desplaines river into the SAG canal a hundred feet away (which they knew about before they built the barrier) A million dollars a year, to study what asian carp eat? Anybody else see a pattern here? How much do you thinks Asian Carp ray guns will cost?

[WALRANGER5]

Eric sharp's outdoor article Free Press today says the DNR wants a survey about slot limits on Pike. We know there's issues with the Pike when they dropped the limit to 2 per day from 5. I know what I used to catch. The gobies are in the backwaters, and Pike don't guard thier eggs, Goby food. If a slot limit is good for Pike it's good for walleyes, anything we can do to protect any native fish is a good thing.

[danthebuilder]

I was reading that it would take them 10-17 years on top of the $3+ billion. So laughable.

[WALRANGER5]

I was reading that it would take them 10-17 years on top of the $3+ billion. So laughable.

I agree, too many people trying to make a buck off a crisis. The MDNR Asian Carp Plan is a 5 year study, that they admit they don't know what they'll do except it will be expensive. Restoring native predators can be done now, can be done very cheaply, (If we don't let the "guvmint do it) slot limits are just good fishery management. If people don't understand catch and release then teach them. Eric sharps article Canadian lake 70 to 80 Pike in one day, where can you do that here? What's wrong with letting some go? A biologist once said about catching fish during spawn, whether you take them out at spawn time or fall, they're still out of the game. The longer native fish stay in the game the more predatory pressure is applied to invasive species, take them out of the game!

[WALRANGER5]

The bottomline is we have several native predators for juvenile Asian Carp, and the rest of our invasive species. The problem is they are also predators of both alewives and salmon, both invasive species. Keeping the lakes safe for them, protects all invasive species. Restoring native predators turns the entire lake into an invasive species control, no matter how the get in. Waiting 10 to 20 years and billions of dollars to plug one hole in Chicago, means we're going to have a carp problem. Politics wont fix this, nor will money, only nature and common sense can fix this, and we're running short on those. Slot limits are just a part of what we can do, to make our lakes as resistant as possible against all invasive species.

[WALRANGER5]

I participated in the GLMRIS conference call yesterday Feb.8 regarding thier proposed controls for Asian carp/invasive species. The bad news is they will take 5 years or more for thier studies and they're only in the first phase. There is no good news. You can read the proposals and have until Feb. 17th. to comment, on the GLMRIS website.

Main criteria is the control has to be available, I would point out poisons that only kill Asian Carp do not exist, predators are available now, can be used now, proactive. The FWS is already stocking Asian Carp predators down south.

[hear fishy fishy]

I think a slot limit on walleyes would have little effect on the Asian Carp. I don't agree with putting a slot limit on walleye but rather close the season a little longer than it currently is. I have fished the Titt river in the spring and seen stringers of five walleyes ranging 10 to 15 pounds from way to many people over the years. They are very easy to catch in the spring I feel and should be protected longer. Once a walleye gets over 24 inches they don't taste all that good anyway so a lot of people let them go anyway. I feel the Walleye pollution is growing in lake Huron. Last year we picked up several well salmon and lake trout fishing even at 65 feet down. I have done well the last several years on Saginaw Bay ice fishing and feel the walleye population is growing. I always get at least one really nice Walleye 10lb plus every year on the bay and let it go. I know there are trophy walleye in the lake you just have to put in some time to get one.

I hope we can figure out something to help control the Asian Carp as I feel its a matter of time before we see them and think they are here already. There have been trucks full of live Asian Carp stop at the Ambassador bridge already. Whats not to say a truck load has been dropped off already?

[WALRANGER5]

I think a slot limit on walleyes would have little effect on the Asian Carp. I don't agree with putting a slot limit on walleye but rather close the season a little longer than it currently is. I have fished the Titt river in the spring and seen stringers of five walleyes ranging 10 to 15 pounds from way to many people over the years. They are very easy to catch in the spring I feel and should be protected longer. Once a walleye gets over 24 inches they don't taste all that good anyway so a lot of people let them go anyway. I feel the Walleye pollution is growing in lake Huron. Last year we picked up several well salmon and lake trout fishing even at 65 feet down. I have done well the last several years on Saginaw Bay ice fishing and feel the walleye population is growing. I always get at least one really nice Walleye 10lb plus every year on the bay and let it go. I know there are trophy walleye in the lake you just have to put in some time to get one.

I hope we can figure out something to help control the Asian Carp as I feel its a matter of time before we see them and think they are here already. There have been trucks full of live Asian Carp stop at the Ambassador bridge already. Whats not to say a truck load has been dropped off already?

Any walleye out of Muskegon Lake over 5 pounds tastes like slab wood. One walleye over 23 inches, is simple and easy to understand, can't rely on people to do the right thing. According to the DNR eggs is a biological safety factor, against negative factors. More females more eggs, costs nothing. If people don't understand catch and release then you teach them. We have several native predators for juvenile asian carp, which they say are veru bad at avoiding predators. Adults are very good at avoiding capture. Illinois has proven over and over that just removing adults they increase, because you just took out the competition for the next spawn of the ones you missed. They knew this from common carp control. I would also point out, the alewives kept the Saginaw bay walleye population down, by eating the fry or "controling the spawn" which is how we can attack the asian carp, and control thier spawn/recruitment. Google (biotic-resistance native predators) do a little research, all baby fish have predators including Asian carp!

[I_Catch_Her]

"There have been trucks full of live Asian Carp stop at the Ambassador bridge already."

Say what???!!

[hear fishy fishy]

Walranger5

I agree with you about people taking to many big fish but don't agree with a slot limit on them. I agree that all fish have predators and the muzzles in lake Huron cased the collapse of alewife which lead to more walleyes. My question is we have all these little walleyes from record years reproducing in lake Huron. I would think these small walleyes would also be capable of eating a small size Asian Carp if they like them?

I Catch Her

Here is some info to read.

http://www.wwmt.com/articles/carp-1401110-detroit-ambassador.html

[WALRANGER5]

"There have been trucks full of live Asian Carp stop at the Ambassador bridge already."

Say what???!!

The Chinese like thier asian carp live, they also think it is good luck to buy 2 and throw one back (alive) They also prefer bighead to silver flying carp) Asian Carp can become toxic if not processed in 24 hrs. I got that from the Dr. that is trying to grind them into fish pills. He told me he had an exchange student, who told him, buying them alive is the only way, the common man can be sure they're fresh. Plus they get more money alive.

[WALRANGER5]

Walranger5

I agree with you about people taking to many big fish but don't agree with a slot limit on them. I agree that all fish have predators and the muzzles in lake Huron cased the collapse of alewife which lead to more walleyes. My question is we have all these little walleyes from record years reproducing in lake Huron. I would think these small walleyes would also be capable of eating a small size Asian Carp if they like them?

I Catch Her

Here is some info to read.

http://www.wwmt.com/articles/carp-1401110-detroit-ambassador.html

I know they will like them, because there's no reason for them not to eat them. Juvenile Asian carp look dead nuts, like baby shad, except the spot, no spines easy prey. It's just like the biologists say, "sufficient numbers" Common carp experts already know when you take out adult carp you have plant predators, if not carp actually increase, proven in Illinois, over and over. A slot doesn't change the limit, just makes us more responsible.

[jballer]

I have followed this post and have to disagree with a slot limit helping our situation in the time frame that is needed. Creating more predator size of fish will take way to long by using a slot limit. I fish the bay on average a dozen times a year, and I have to say we catch our limit almost every time out. In the last four years, give or take a couple, I have put very few large walleye in the boat. I know the fish are out there, just not as common for me. So out of the few hundred walleye we catch, very few would ever make it back in the water using a slot limit. This method would only affect and be helpful to the guys that are more fortunate to catch these larger fish on a regular basis . So with that thought in mind not everyone can contribute to help our situation. But what can affect and allow every person that fish these waters to help, would be to close the season a little longer and allow more of the larger predator size fish to remain in the system. It is very common to catch a limit of these size fish during the spawning times. If having more predator size fish is the answer, then I would much rather give up a few weeks of river fishing to allow these fish to live another day. I believe we could save more fish in three weeks during spawning time then we could all year with a slot limit. This was mentioned in this post already by some one else and I think it is our best chance for all of us to help.

[Priority1]

Josh, I feel the same way. I'm thinking not only close the season a touch longer but expand the area to include the Bay:). I know some areas on the Bay where its slaughter time in late March and early April. I don't partake in that. Most of the fish I catch between Late April and August are the 17-22inch fish. I like it like that.

[Eyefull]

I am not for or against slot limits. I just haven't seen anything in this thread that connects the dots with Asian carp management. Slot limits are used to increase trophy fish and boost spawning efforts. Neither of those things are lacking on Saginaw Bay. The Bay is full of walleye now, granted mostly 13-22 inch variety, but all sizes are out there including state record size fish. There are plenty of walleye to eat any new bait, including asian carp. If you think that only trophy fish eat bait, then why do I have to beat away the 13" eyes from biting a Reef Runner 800 in the spring, or a Streak Standard all summer long? Like I said, I am always open to the idea of slots for the right reason. Lets keep the two issues seperate like they should be. Fighting Asian Carp is seperate from slot limits on walleye in Saginaw Bay. Saginaw Bay has no shortage of predators, it does have a shortage of baitfish. Fighting Asian Carp is a very important issue, all will agree on that front. I just don't see any evidence to convince me that slot limits on walleye will do anything for that in Saginaw Bay.