copper questions

[wingnut]

I'd like to start off by Introducing myself, my name is Steve and I have limited experience salmon fishing but I can tell you I am hooked. I'd like to set up two rods with copper line for 2011. I'll be putting the 30 LB copper line on Tekota 800's. From reading old posts it sounds like I don't need line counters for the copper, just spool enough copper on the reel to get down to a set depth by using the copper line sink rate chart. If I'm fishing 40' down and the fish are at 60' Would it be possible to change depth by adding another section of copper end to end while on the boat by having a pre measured length of copper ready to attach? What line rating, power rating should I look for in the rod to pull copper?

[Priority1]

I'd like to start off by Introducing myself, my name is Steve and I have limited experience salmon fishing but I can tell you I am hooked. I'd like to set up two rods with copper line for 2011. I'll be putting the 30 LB copper line on Tekota 800's. From reading old posts it sounds like I don't need line counters for the copper, just spool enough copper on the reel to get down to a set depth by using the copper line sink rate chart. If I'm fishing 40' down and the fish are at 60' Would it be possible to change depth by adding another section of copper end to end while on the boat by having a pre measured length of copper ready to attach? What line rating, power rating should I look for in the rod to pull copper?

Steve, A warm welcome to the GLF site. Adding a Dive Bomb or a snap weight may be an option to get more depth. There will be a lot of folks chiming in with a lot of good advice.

[fishsniffer]

the way you are explaining it you would have trouble reeling it in as you would run out of reel capacity and have to hand line the fish..if im reading it right..some people run segmented copper and core.example...2 color then 30 ft of mono then 3 more colors..essentialy having a 2 and 5 color on the same rod..ive heard bad things about leaving core or copper at the rod tip so i dont do it myself..you may want to get a hold of the folks at blood run tackle also..these guys know copper like no other and would be glad to answer questions as to wether segmenting copper is a way to go. http://www.coppertrollingwire.com/?page_id=3

[KJ pluggin]

Welcome to GLF Steve! I agree with Frank, dive bombs and similar products are a good way of achieving additional depth. I use medium or medium-heavy rods for my long lines, something like a 12 to 30# line rating would probably work.

[mayvillemark]

I agree with Fank adding a little snap weight or dive bomb would gain you 20 feet no problem. As for poles I bought a medium heavy 9.5 foot diawa heartland rod for about 15.99 put a twili tip on it and ready to go.

[wingnut]

I wouldn't fill the reel to capacity, leaving room for the add on if needed. It sounds like I would be further ahead to add weight or one of the dive bombs, to gain the extra depth. If you only had two reels on the boat with copper (ME) what lengths of 30LB copper would you set up with. I'll likely be fishing out of ludington, late summer.

[tangled mess]

you do not need the twili tip just use a regular rod the copper will not hurt the gides as it is softer than the guides and any time you add knots or weight to aline you are asking for problems the more times you have to stop and take some thing off the more time the fish has time to get off if you get a 300 it will work most of the year

[DIRTY DOG]

I will not use dive bomb on copper , because after you place the plastic pin inplace it makes a flat spot on the line.

What Ive done to achive greater depth is just to make a loop in the end of one segment and loop the other peace in and twist tite .Ive never had it break .

[wingnut]

300 should put me at about 60' that sounds about right. It seems like it would be less trouble to use mono as the backer connecting to a quality swivel then the copper. When the planer board release wears the mono it could be easily, and probably a lot more often be cut back and retied. In a lot of old posts It's recommended to use power pro as the backer then a length of mono for the board release.

[fishsniffer]

only 2 copper setups..im starting to tear up just thinking about it..you need a bunch of copper:)i would go with a 300 and 450

[tangled mess]

use mono for your backer because copper has no strech and it acts as a shock asorber for the copper and you cun cut and retie at any time

[DIRTY DOG]

The mono trick works great, much easier to see any wear.And much easer on the releases.

[fishsniffer]

300 should put me at about 60' that sounds about right. It seems like it would be less trouble to use mono as the backer connecting to a quality swivel then the copper. When the planer board release wears the mono it could be easily, and probably a lot more often be cut back and retied. In a lot of old posts It's recommended to use power pro as the backer then a length of mono for the board release.

the reason for the power pro backer is to get more line on the spool then the mono between the copper and pp gives the rig some stretch

[killerbe20]

use mono for your backer because copper has no strech and it acts as a shock asorber for the copper and you cun cut and retie at any time

ditto

[fishsniffer]

i need to type faster..by time i posted 3 others posted saying the same thing:eek:

[killerbe20]

i have never felt i was short on backing using 40lb mono with 300 feet of copper on a 55 series okuma.

[wingnut]

What I had in mind to join the two copper lengths was, quality swivel at the ends and joined by a 3x split ring. The ring measures 7mm and rated at 90 LB. Should make adding on easy. I'd like to set up with more copper but I'm adding two wire divers this year also so theres only so much I can do at one time. I'd like to use my 500 tekotas for the wire. I have more questions about using wire also. If I use mag divers on wire, what rating would the rod need to be. I'm guessing 20 to 50 about 7' long with silicone carbide guides and a torpedo tip.

[fishsniffer]

tony (eyefull)will probably have a good answer on the rod..i use a 8ft 6 talora med heavy with med/fast action

[wingnut]

the reason for the power pro backer is to get more line on the spool then the mono between the copper and pp gives the rig some stretch

Thanks for the explanation on the power pro, that makes sense now. I think I'll have enough capacity on the 800's using 40LB mono, but I haven't used the calculator yet.

[mayvillemark]

I would hook the dive bomb to the mono between the copper and backer and let out some line I keep 50 foot of mono on just for dive bombs

[Eyefull]

Length of your wire rods are totally up to your needs with your program. If you fish a wide beam boat with 3' out and downs, a 7' rod with fast action will do just fine. If you have longer out and downs, a longer rod with a fast action and rated normally in the 20-40# class will do nicely. Stiffer, faster action rods maintain their reach better than those with softer, slower blanks. Having said that, a slower action softer rod with the same 20-40# line rating will be much more forgiving during the bite/hookset and while fighting. No stretch in wire means a rod that is fast and stiff will take more finesse from the angler to seal the deal, especially when the fish gets pissed at the back of the boat. As for guides, the SIC rings will certainly take wire for a while, but will eventually get chewed up or at least scored up ugly. The newest rings from Fuji, the Silicon Nitride II rings are built for wire and have stood up to a couple of Ludington Charter boats action for their third season already with no issues. These rods are the first in and last out aboard these boats, so they have seen the action and proven to me to be as advertised. So far, no retail rod manufacturers are using the SNII guides, cost prohibitive. They run almost as much as a good set of rollers, but make for a much better fishing platform than a roller rod. I will be building myself a pair of 9' wire rods for my own use this year and they will have the SNII guides in a spiral wrap.

For any custom builder, wire rods are the toughest trolling rods to perfect. The torture that the wire and mag divers put on a rod are second to none in the industry. The sawing action the boat/diver puts on the line guides with the wire is absolute brutal. That is the reason that there really isn't any great retail rods for wire. The rod manufacturers aren't going to spend that much time on details for a small market specialized rod niche. Plus, like mentioned above, an individuals fishing programs and styles has as much to do with the performance of these rods as the components themselves. You have to match the fishing style and program with the correct components to get great performance.

Sorry for not giving an easy solution to the problem, that is why I lose sleep over wire rods:eek:.

[Rascal Trophy Fishing]

Hi Steve and welcome to the GLF forum. We talked on an earlier thread about getting deep with certain core setups, and it was also noted that a weight attached just after the core is out, here it would be copper, would make the rig go deeper too without the necessity of running a lot more line. Try a 1/2#, 1#, or if you can get them, 2# wt. rubber banded to the line. This should get you another 10'-25' in depth, without the necessity for more copper, bigger reels, and etc.. I know some guys will say go ahead and run 600'-750' of copper, their budgets for reels and equipment might be more than some others though. Good fishing.

[tangled mess]

Thanks for the explanation on the power pro, that makes sense now. I think I'll have enough capacity on the 800's using 40LB mono, but I haven't used the calculator yet.

you do not need 40# just uses 20 or 25 # than you can get more backer i run 800's and use 20 # mono it is best to just set up rods with diffrent segments of copper and set them up to the detphs you want becuse like i said before the more you mess around with thing the better chance the fish has to get off or for you to tangle thing up and cost you more money by tring to save money and thats from exprince

[wingnut]

Thanks for the wire rod explanation Tony. I remember you doing research on wire divers a couple years ago and posting on RBO. Is the torpedo tip the one to go with, if I remember right you would use the twilly tips but man are they ugly LOL. I hate to think how much the SN guides are because the sic's are pricey. Diawa makes what looks to be a good rod for wire, the saltist I think It's the STE 72C.

[wingnut]

you do not need 40# just uses 20 or 25 # than you can get more backer i run 800's and use 20 # mono it is best to just set up rods with diffrent segments of copper and set them up to the detphs you want becuse like i said before the more you mess around with thing the better chance the fish has to get off or for you to tangle thing up and cost you more money by tring to save money and thats from exprince

Tangled mess I'm sure you are right about keeping it simple with one length of copper. It was recommended on an earlier post that I should use 40 lb. as a backer. It seemed the extra 10 lb. would be good insurance if I've got room on the 800. Is Ande the brand that you would use for a backer?