Lake Michigan Preferred Fish Temperatures

[eastcoasttransplant]

Hey guys....well I'm keeping the boards busy.

If you do a general internet search say for preferred chinook salmon temperatures, you'll get a range across the board. Some mention a 54 degree temperature, while others state 44 degrees. That's a big difference!

Therefore, I was wondering if we can come to a general concensus as to what are the optimal temperatures to seek out the following species on Lake Michigan:

-Chinook Salmon

-Coho Salmon

-Steelhead

-Brown Trout

-Lake Trout

Perhaps if we can get a working range I can get a better starting point for targeting these species next year. Thanks all.

[1mainiac]

Each of those has a different preferred temp as does the bait they eat for the most part. Lake Trout like the coldest water around 40 to 42 Salmon seem to like 44 to 46 the best Steelhead and Coho like 46 to 48 Browns will hang in 48 to 52. Most of that meant very little last summer on the Michigan side as we were stuck with very warm water all summer. Mature Alewives will also live in cold water as do Herring and Whitefish. However most of the bait that is preyed on is going to be found in the low to mid 50 deg. the 54 number is a good start point as having your gear in warmer water won't do any good. What you need to find is baitfish and then look for the closest cold water to them cause if there is something to eat the salmon won't be far away from it.

[killerbe20]

another good thing to look for is temp breaks. sometimes they hang just below where the temp drops 5-10 degrees

[eastcoasttransplant]

Now my question with temp was regarding elimating water that just doesn't seem to hold fish. I know there are exceptions, particularly on the higher temp side, where fish will go and feed but are there any real exceptions on the low side (summer fishng)?

In one of the fishing videos I purchased, which was produced on Lake Michigan and fairly recently, the captain stated that one of their most successful big king patterns is to troll a large 10-11 inch flasher and fly very deep during the mid-day hours. That got me thinking.....I would assume the captain is not putting that flasher and fly below the 42-44 degree "preferred" temperature for king salmon but I wanted to be sure.

I guess in the end, I realize that fish will go out of their preferred temperature ranges to feed, usually into a higher temperature range than they "prefer" but if they "never" go below thier perferred temperature range, than I can eliminate a bunch of unproductive water right off the bat. Again, just speaking about summer fishing not the spring or fall.

In my example from before, I fished last summer in a depth of 60 feet down over 130 feet deep. The temp at 60 feet deep was 42 degrees. Deeper than 60 feet the temperature dropped into the 30's. Therefore, I did not run my presentations deeper than 60 feet, assuming that no great concentrations of fish would be below that 60 foot depth due to the temperature.

[Nailer]

Like jim said, on this side of the lake there was warm temps top to bottom last year. After the dawn bite was over all the fish dropped down and sat on the bottom. We caught a bunch of fish last year in 72 deg water that where laying on the bottom. A flasher/fly combo got most of those fish. A ff will pull big fish (in warm water) off the bottom. Last year was not the norm. You had very cold water, and we had very warm water.

Just because the water is not in there preferred temp zone doesn't mean they all leave.

Mid summer Salmon will stage out side the harbors within a few miles regardless of temp.

You where targeting 40' last year, but you could of targeted 20' and still got fish. Hitting the exact temp is nowhere near as important as having a properly presented spread.

Do you have Dan Keatins book "Keating on Kings"? Dans book is a great read for those fishing the West side of Lake Michigan.

[eastcoasttransplant]

I've got Dan's two videos on Kings and have spoken to him at the marina. He's a great guy and a big help.

Now as he address water temperature and "preferred" temps for kings, I just wanted to see if fishing summertime water below 40 degrees is just pointless.

If you look at preferred temps for each salmonoid species, not one of the big 5 seem to "prefer" waters below a 40 degree temp. If I take that verbatim....I should never fish water below 40 degrees during the summer months.

Just looking for a little reassurance on that.

[killerbe20]

i probably would not fish water that cold in the middle of summer. one exception would have to be lake trout fishing. another would be if i saw something on the fish finder, and then i would only throw one rod there just to investigate and continue to focus on more productive temp range.

if for some reason i was pulling fish out of that cold of water, that would change everything then of course.....

[eastcoasttransplant]

Thanks Josh.

It;s real interesting because just when you think you might have things figured out, someone or something comes along that throws out the norm.

Some guys brought up Michigan charter captain, Mark Chumura, who has stated he fishng a rod or two, 200', 300' and even over 400' deep for mature kings. Again, he's using specialized tackle to fish that deep, but it's interesting that he's pulling fish out of those depths apparently below the "preferred" water temps.

I think your assessment is correct. Stick with the norms unless something on the screen reveals itself. That being said, we did mark a pod of fish last year close to 100ft down that I assumed were lakers. Maybe I should have seen if they were kings instead.

My wife keeps telling me only 4 months until we get the boat back out but that seems a LONG ways away.

[Nailer]

I've got Dan's two videos on Kings and have spoken to him at the marina. He's a great guy and a big help.

Now as he address water temperature and "preferred" temps for kings, I just wanted to see if fishing summertime water below 40 degrees is just pointless.

If you look at preferred temps for each salmonoid species, not one of the big 5 seem to "prefer" waters below a 40 degree temp. If I take that verbatim....I should never fish water below 40 degrees during the summer months.

Just looking for a little reassurance on that.

This really doesn't come into play much in a typical summer. The only time I have ever seen water that cold in our area, we where pulling fish in 45 fow from top to bottom.

I do remember looking at the surface lake temps last year and thinking Wow! look how cold there water is. A 1/2 core on a board in that situation is deadly.

Jim was getting a bunch of fish on short cores last year on your side.

Have you used this site for surface temps yet?

[killerbe20]

I do remember looking at the surface lake temps last year and thinking Wow! look how cold there water is. A 1/2 core on a board in that situation is deadly.

Jim was getting a bunch of fish on short cores last year on your side.

yet?

yeah, two of my hottest rods all year were a 2 and 3 color leadcore on boards.

Edited November 29, 2010 by killerbe20
addition

[mattmishler]

yeah, two of my hottest rods all year were a 2 and 3 color leadcore on boards.

yea u guys had all the cold water over there lol. My best rod was a 150 rigger and a low diver back 250

[eastcoasttransplant]

This was my first year fishing Lake Michigan. I got the boat out in early July and fished until September. Not much time.

I did utilize the surface water temp charts, along with the wind forecasts, but having an intricate knowledge of the lake I do not.

Knowing what is a typical year, water temp-wise, I couldn't say. Based on everything I read, I simply looked for that 42-46 degree water and found it down anywhere from 30-60ft deep. Not that deep. My higher presentations did well and thus, I wasn't sure if that was typical on this side of the lake.

[jimcr]

I've got Dan's two videos on Kings and have spoken to him at the marina. He's a great guy and a big help.

Now as he address water temperature and "preferred" temps for kings, I just wanted to see if fishing summertime water below 40 degrees is just pointless.

If you look at preferred temps for each salmonoid species, not one of the big 5 seem to "prefer" waters below a 40 degree temp. If I take that verbatim....I should never fish water below 40 degrees during the summer months.

Just looking for a little reassurance on that.

I too have both of his videos and both of his books, The second book "Keating on Kings" goes way beyond what is covered in the videos and first book. Watching his videos and reading his first book make it seem easy , then you get into his last book and it adds new dementions to what he has taught you. If you want the best price order it from his website.

[1mainiac]

First thing to keep in mind is 38.6deg F is the heaviest water can get warmer or colder it will rise above this temp. Which is why ice floats. I have often wondered since fish are cold blooded like a reptile if their choice of temp is not more about the specific gravity of the water then the actual temp. Just like divers using weight to adjust for the depth they want to be at to make it easier to move around I think it is the same for fish they can swim in warmer or colder water however not as easy as they can in the proper temp to match their body mass. Also just like us when it is time to sit and relax we want to be a comfortable and relaxed as we can so we pick our favorite chair and adjust the HVAC to suit us. However when it is dinnertime we will go where we have to to eat. When Salmon were first planted here the Lake was full of various age class Alewives which they were planted to get rid of. 40 plus years later and now we have to save the Alewives or get the Salmon to eat something else. The something else does not live in their preferred temp zone so they must go out of temp to eat which stress's them and they get less value out of what they eat so we have smaller fish. Out in the deep water there are still mature Alewives and they will be deep so sending a lure down there will often net your biggest fish. Next season if your side and our side are closer to normal out deep you will both big fish down deep and smaller fish above them so you can send one rod or 2 down deep and run the rest of your spread as normal.

[jimcr]

And the key to saving the alewives is to get rid of the zebra muscles and all of the invasive species that are screwing up the the food web.

[eastcoasttransplant]

Thanks guys. I really do appreciate all the insight.

[Line Dancin]

Just like divers using weight to adjust for the depth they want to be at to make it easier to move around I think it is the same for fish they can swim in warmer or colder water however not as easy as they can in the proper temp to match their body mass.

I get what you are trying to say Jim but your diver reference is completely wrong. the weight is to get down under water with all the buoyant equipment that a diver wears, it has nothing to do with making it easier to move around. A wet suit or dry suit is very buoyant, so in order to sink you add lead weights to the point that you are just floating at mask level with all the air out of your BCD. when you exhale you begin your descent. Then as you descend throughout the water you get compression on the suit, equipment, and the air you breath eventually making you more heavy, and this is where you add air to a buoyancy control device to slow your descent and make you neutral at the depth you want to stay at. If you didn't add weight i don't care how hard you tried you would never leave the surface.

Now my take being a diver and being in water down below the thermoclines on some of the wrecks, there is a preferred temp for fishing BUT i have seen salmon down under that preferred temp attacking other fish and never get close to the preferred temps. when there was bait at the preferred temps while we were descending. Some of the bottom temps i have seen that at is down to 34-36 degrees on my dive computer. So i don't know how true all the preferred temp feeding is at times. I do use a temp probe and fish from 44 up to 54 degree temps primarily. but i always have lines in that cold water because of what i have seen and those rods do take fish.

[1mainiac]

Well I was not completely wrong you do use weight and your air bladder to control your buoyancy and set your depth. The weight combined with your air bladder adjusts your specific gravity to match the water you are in giving you neutral buoyancy which makes it easier to move around as you no longer have to fight gravity or the fact you are lighter than water to move around. I would check my temp gauge if you are seeing 34 deg water on the bottom because I will correct myself 39.2 is the heaviest water can get. Anything colder would float above it this however does not apply to salt water.

[Line Dancin]

Well I was not completely wrong you do use weight and your air bladder to control your buoyancy and set your depth. The weight combined with your air bladder adjusts your specific gravity to match the water you are in giving you neutral buoyancy which makes it easier to move around as you no longer have to fight gravity or the fact you are lighter than water to move around. I would check my temp gauge if you are seeing 34 deg water on the bottom because I will correct myself 39.2 is the heaviest water can get. Anything colder would float above it this however does not apply to salt water.

ok i get what you were getting at.

My computer is accurate to a tenth of a degree. we dove all year long when i was on the fire dept dive team including cutting a hole in the ice with the charlevoix coast guard dive team. i have seen temps to 33 on the bottom and at 33 my ice rated reg gives ice crystals with every breath. at 34 it looks like your descending into jelly.

Anyways back on topic like i said i have seen the fish feeding in that cold water so i always keep a couple lines in that deep cold water and they do produce fish. sometimes better than the preffered temp ranges.

[eastcoasttransplant]

Ok guys, well I've come to the conclusion that I was missing one main point that confirms I'm an idiot.....

Each time I looked for that "preferred" 42-46 degree water I would find it, drop the probe a little bit lower, see the temp drop to below that preferred 42 degrees and ASSume that the water all the way to the bottom must be colder. Obviously I knew that it wouldn't be 32 degrees but I failed to recognize the 39.2 degree rule.

Now call ME dense but am I to understand that if I'm fishing 60 feet down over 130 feet of water, and at 60 feet down the temperature is reading 42 degrees, that the water between 61 feet and 130 feet CANNOT be colder than 39.2 degrees otherwise it would rise to the surface?

If that is the case than it appears that salmon can really be anywhere in the water column. Although that 39.2 degrees isn't "preferred" it's not that much colder than 42 degrees.

Thank guys.

[Line Dancin]

Ok guys, well I've come to the conclusion that I was missing one main point that confirms I'm an idiot.....

Each time I looked for that "preferred" 42-46 degree water I would find it, drop the probe a little bit lower, see the temp drop to below that preferred 42 degrees and ASSume that the water all the way to the bottom must be colder. Obviously I knew that it wouldn't be 32 degrees but I failed to recognize the 39.2 degree rule.

Now call ME dense but am I to understand that if I'm fishing 60 feet down over 130 feet of water, and at 60 feet down the temperature is reading 42 degrees, that the water between 61 feet and 130 feet CANNOT be colder than 39.2 degrees otherwise it would rise to the surface?

If that is the case than it appears that salmon can really be anywhere in the water column. Although that 39.2 degrees isn't "preferred" it's not that much colder than 42 degrees.

Thank guys.

this is correct it will continue to get colder to the bottom. As far as the 39.2 rule i am not so sure about that i just know what the divers from my dive club see at depth for temp.

the way i learned it in school is colder water is denser than warmer water causing colder water to be lower in the column. If you take three different bottles of water each colder than the first pour them into a bucket in a way not to mix the water it will set up just like a lake with thermal breaks. It doesnt last long in a bucket beacuse the air will warm the bucket eventuall causing the water to mix. (we did this in my physics class about 10 years ago in college) The reason ice float is becaus of; (now i am borrowing this from a physics book because i can't remember):

"Ice is the solid state of water. Ice floats because frozen water is not denser than its liquid form. This happens because water does not follow the basic principle of thermodynamics. In other words, a solid is heavier than its liquid counterpart and should sink. However, ice has a unique molecular structure that allows it to float.

When water is frozen, the molecules are forced to pack in very tightly to each other, eliminating as much space between them as possible. Ice may look and feel solid enough, but it's actually made up of a lot of empty spaces. The triangular shape of ice's molecules keeps them apart and creates a tightly knit latticework instead of a dense solid structure. When water is frozen, it actually decreases in density and increases in volume, which makes it much lighter than its liquid form.

So it's water's unique molecular shape that allows ice to be lighter than water and float"

i have seen it down to 36 on wrecks in the middle of summer at 90 ft down. I was looking at my fresh water dive log and temps like that were in june. i dont know about the floating up type theory i just know what i see when i am diving and my computer is accurate. if it wasn't then six divers all getting the same reading would be a little odd all using different manufactures of equipment.

So back to your question can they be anywhere in the water column. I have seen them in the water column, and laying along side burbot on the bottom in 30ish degree water, and feed through out the water column but they do have a preffered temp. Do i fish the preferred temp yes i do with most of my gear, but i always keep deeper lines as there are fish there to be caught that are feeding out of there temps.

[eastcoasttransplant]

Thanks Aaron.

I really appreciate the lesson and the personal insight you have provided. I just can't wait until next year to try out all these things I'm talking about now.

Thanks again.

[steeliebob]

I never really put too much emphasis on temps and depth. I really put the effort on the time that you were on the water. When I put the boat in at 3:00 am I would use double glow spoons 30 feet down and 30 feet behind the ball in 60 to 80 fow. From 4:00 to 6:00 am you could not keep the salmon off of your lines. Most of the time I just ran two rods on the riggers. I had more doubles and triples when I ran three lines. then I ever had before. I ran the temp a few times on other boats ant it always was about 52 degrees. Being that I was alone in the boat I lost more fish than I caught but it was fun having releases and not dragging balls. Next year it will be hard to fish evenings.

[eastcoasttransplant]

Yeah in reviewing the few months (July, August and early September) that I fished Lake Michigan, I think I relied too much on a thin temperature band.

I mean most days out I took wave action, natural light penetration, speed and depth into consideration.....but I really relied on my Depth Raider to put me into a 42-46 degree band of water. Hey, we did OK. Our worse day trolling was 5 fish and best day was 17. That's for two people and 6 lines. Maybe not gangbusters, but OK to start.

I think now what I'm realizing is that fish relate to a much wider temperature than I thought. My premises to fish over a certain depth or certain spread was still valid but I think next season I will not rely SO heavily on a "preferred" temperature.

I just can't wait to get back out there and put all these things into perspective.

Thanks again.

[mj6131]

Here's a couple of other considerations (though I'm not sure how they help to find fish:confused:):

Being cold-blooded, a fish in lower temperature water is less active. Water temp is directly related to fish feeding and growth.

The warmer water gets, the less oxygen it holds, and a fish in warmer water, with it's metabolism faster, needs more oxygen. My take is that while you might find some salmon in warm water, they are certainly not comfortable, and probably won't stay long.

Just my two cents...