Smoker Help?

[BRIAN0214]

I am looking to smoke slamon for the first time in my new smoker tomorrow. I could use some help. I need a simple brine to soak the fish in overnight. I also need to know how to set up the smoker and need to know what temperture to cook at and how long should smoke it for. Any input is greatly appericiated. Thank you!

[Yooperdad]

Brian, a good guide can be found on line here

http://extension.oregonstate.edu/catalog/pdf/pnw/pnw238.pdf

Have fun.

[1mainiac]

if your cooking tomorrow should already be in the brine . I mix Brown Sugar and Kosher salt 2 cups of salt to 1/2 cup brown sugar add a shot of orange juice pack the fish in it in the fridge for 24 hours then pull them out and dry them before cooking cook around 200 deg and check with temp probe to see when done.

[Pitmaster]

I have a bunch of documents I've collected about smoking fish. This is one of my favorites.

My method of smoking salmon is just about as basic as you can get. It's not really my method - an ol' Swede taught me his "how to's" many years ago when I bought his smoking and canning plant in Coos Bay, Oregon. We dealt with mainly salmon, but did a lot of other fish too and used the same curing method for most - with the exception of kippered fish, which was smoked without salt and then canned with the salt added after smoking.

I use a kiln dried medium or fine salt. It's similar to kosher salt in texture and a little less potent than regular table salt. I think the reason the ol' boy used this particular kind of salt is because it was cheap - about three bucks for a fifty-pound sack...they use a lot of it for cattle feed supplements and water softening - anyway, it works real good and we used it for just about everything, including cleaning the cutting tables and for putting on the floor for traction when the fish guts got up around your ankles.

I rarely smoke fish in the round, unless it's a smaller fish like trout or small stealhead. I will generally scale, de-fin, filet and remove as many bones as possible and in the same stroke, so-to-speak, salt the filet with the method I described - being, that more salt is sprinkled over the thicker areas and less in the thinner. It's hard to describe just how much or what the exact ratio of salt to fish is, but as close as I can get is, that it will be about twice to three times what it would be if you were to eat it. On larger filets or fish that is 1-1/2 to 2 inches thick, the salt will accumulate beyond transparent to an appearance of fresh fallen snow at the thickest point and taper-off to transparent as the piece gets thinner.

Dry, hand salting, is a slower process than wet brining. After the filets are salted, they are stacked skin-to-meat on top of each other and let sit in the refer overnight. The containers that hold the stacked filets are semi-open on the bottom to let the moisture drain off

- we used wooden fruit boxes that had thin slats on the bottom and sides, placed a chunk of plastic on the bottom and when the box was full, put a chunk on top to keep the critters out - the refer had a drain in the floor for the run-off - it would be a good idea to put something under whatever you use, 'cause there's quite a bit of moisture that will drain from the fish as it draws salt. When you're wet brining, the run-off isn't noticed, but it's there. If you re-use the brine, the slime and scales and whatever that washes off the previous batch is then sucked-up into your next batch...this is done a lot, because to change the brine with every new batch is time consuming and it could get kinda spendy. Depending on the percent of salt in a wet brine, the time of cure can be cut considerably and in most cases the amount of salt absorption is very difficult to control - unless every piece is exactly the same size and thickness.

After the dry salted fish sits overnight, the filets are laid-out and gently sprayed with a cold water rinse and as I mentioned, squeegee with the palm of your hand to remove as much of the surface moisture as possible. Whole filets are a bit more difficult to smoke. To produce a whole, evenly intact and unbroken pellicle on a large filet, will take some dedicated pit time - unless you can set your smokehouse on "auto-smoke". I will cut the filet (after it is rinsed and before it is racked or hung) into 'servable' sized pieces and usually separate the tail sections from the thicker pieces because they will tend to get drier more quickly. Unless you are going to consume an entire filet at one setting, smaller pieces are a better way to go - the smaller pieces are not only easier to maintain as far as storage and serving, but they seem to take a little better smoke and they are easier to manage in the smokehouse as well.

The most important step in producing a moist, firm-flake, buttery and visually superb piece of smoked salmon (or other fish), is to NOT break the pellicle or surface varnish. The most common mistake is too much heat - either at the beginning before the surface tacks-up, or too much heat after the pellicle has formed.

If the membrane is not allowed to form evenly and too much heat is applied prematurely, the filet will sweat, and continue to sweat and ooze throughout the smoking cycle - the result is less than premimum...if it breaks somewhere along the line, the finished product isn't quite as bad, but it will still loose a lot of moisture and flavor.

(Pardon my soap boxing, I get carried away sometimes) - Anyway, with a dry salt cure you can control, very close to exactly, how much salt goes into the fish. There is only so much salt to go into the fish, whereas in a wet brine there is much more salt than needed and it's easy to get it too salty - or not salty enough, depends on your timing.

I have worked with outfits that used wet brining and there was always the question of whether or not it was in long enough - or not long enough...big fish and small fish, when to change the brine or add more salt or add more water. It was a real hassle, the finished product was nowhere near consistent and you never really knew what was going on...it was all kinda guesswork at best.

It may take a few runs until you are comfortable with the amounts, but after you level the curve you'll be able to hit it on the nose every time, with just about every kind, size and shape of fish.

Sorry for the novel.

A fellow carnivore, Dan in WA

----------------------------

If you're serving the salmon as the main course, I would delete the brining and opt for a light seasoning of spices and herbs. Brining in a wet solution will commit the fish to your taste for salt and may or may not be acceptable to all of your guests.

Also, a wet brine brings a lot of variables into the equation - how much salt in ratio to the thickness of the filets and how much time do you leave the varied thicknesses in the brine? I think Ed has a point about the 24 hours, unless the brine is a very weak salt / water solution or the filets are very large - and even then it becomes a timing thing with the thinner areas of the filet. The thicker areas will be less salty and the thinner belly and tail will become a lot more saturated - given, you immerse the whole filet and leave it in the brine for 'x' hours.

About the only way to really control or maintain even salt distribution throughout, in a wet brine, is to separate the thin from the thick in separate batches - and even then, it's guesswork - unless you have done a lot of filets and know exactly how how much salt to put in and how salty they will be after you're done. To say "brine the filets for 24 hours" alone, is just too abstract and I would not recommend doing it.

What I would feel comfortable in recommending is a dry brine. Salt the filet with a mediun coarse kosher or kiln-dried fine rock salt. Lay the filet out and hand-salt in a quantity that's about three times what you would ordinarilly salt a fresh-to-eat piece of fish. This too, is still approximate and at the very thick and very thin areas of the filet it will require an adjustment in the amount of salt. You will have much more control and the timing will not be as critical. You could dry-salt a filet - of any size - and leave it overnite, 24 hours or even longer if you wanted. The filet will only take-in the quantity of salt you put on it, whereas with a wet brine, the filet will continue to take salt until you remove it....sometimes to early, sometimes too late - real hard to determine if your filets are different sizes.

I've done it both ways, with many different kinds of fish and the dry brine has always produced a more consistient result. Wet brining is used by many of the large producers, mainly because it takes less time.

If you get the brine up to 17-20 percent, you can 'get salt' in a matter of minutes. This will require a salometer, a lot of salt and somebody standing-by with a stopwatch - kinda tricky, but it can be done. A good 'rule-of-thumb' is to add just enough salt to float a raw egg - start with water and the egg, then add salt until the egg just comes to the surface. This will produce a brine that's in the 5-7 percent range, it will take just about one cup of salt to one gallon of water. The neat thing about this method is, you don't have to know exactly how many gallons are in the container - you can use any shape or size and still get the salt content about the same every time without measuring. That's a pretty salty brine, and for the average - say a 3-4 lb filet, shouldn't take any longer than about three hours - any longer and the thinner areas will be getting too salty, for my taste, anyway.

Another thing, the fish will telegraph the chamber temp quickly. If your temps are 250, the fish will be 250 - or real close to it. It's very easy to overcook or force the moisture out of the fish. The fish will be cooked at an internal of about 140-150, when the chamber temp is

250 it is easy to race right through the cook temp. I would start-out at a low temp - 120 or so, and gradually over a couple of hours, raise the temps to 150 - 160 and try not to get it too hot, too quick - try not to break-open the surface and release the juices. When the filet starts to sweat excessively and you see a white-yellowish stuff oozing from it, chances are you're loosing moisture and flavor. Starting-out at lower temps also allows the smoke to do it's thing and the result will be a much smokier, more moist filet of salmon.

I would suggest, to sprinkle-on a little of your favorite dry rub, smoke-cook for a couple of hours with your temps no higher than 160 -

170 and serve hot-out-of-the-smokehouse with a little dab of cheesy lemon-dill cream sauce on the side - and wouldn't worry a whole lot about brining. If you're gonna do a true smoked salmon, then I would use a dry salt and extend the smoking cycle to about 12-15 hours - with a good portion of that time being under 140.

Hope everything turns-out OK for ya.

A fellow carnivore, Dan in WA

[Pitmaster]

Another one

<<<>>>"Official Cardog's BBQ Salmon"

Dry Rub

________________________________________

1 cup light brown sugar, packed

1 cup non-iodized table salt

3 TBSP granulated garlic

3 TBSP granulated onion 1 TBSP dill weed

1 TBSP savory

2 tsp tarragon

Mix all ingredients thoroughly. Turbinado sugar may be substituted for brown sugar.

<>

Finishing Rub

________________________________________

1/4 cup light brown sugar, packed

1 TBSP granulated garlic

1 TBSP granulated onion 1 tsp savory

1 tsp tarragon

Mix all ingredients thoroughly. Turbinado sugar may be substituted for brown sugar.

Buy a fresh, 3-pound salmon fillet, preferably Sockeye or King. Remove the pin bones using tweezers or needle nose pliers. Do not remove the skin. Place skin-side down in a glass or stainless steel pan.

Pack the dry rub on the flesh side of the fillet, approximately 1/4" thick. Let the fillet rest in the refrigerator for 2 to 3 hours (the longer you leave the rub on, the stronger the salt flavor). Rinse the fillet in cool, clean water to remove the dry rub, then pat dry. Allow to dry for about 30 minutes, until the flesh becomes tacky.

Heat a barbecue grill to medium to medium-high. Sprinkle finishing rub on the fillet (twice what you would use as if you were heavy salt and peppering). Cook with the lid closed to an internal temp of 140-155*F (your preference) measured in the center of the thickest part of the fillet.

We recommend using wood to produce smoke while cooking. On a charcoal grill, just sprinkle a few wood chips on the coals. On a gas grill, place wood chips in a pouch made of aluminum foil. Poke holes in the top of the pouch and place it on the hottest spot under the grill. Alder is our wood of choice, but fruitwoods are a wonderful substitute.

You can also smoke it at lower temps of 225-250*F; this allows for more smoke on the fillets.

[Pitmaster]

An outstanding appetizer:

<<<>>>

Piquant Salmon Rolls- Mark Stevens

8 oz. cream cheese

1/4 cup walnuts or pecans, chopped

1/4 cup green onion, chopped

1/2 tsp ground coriander

1/2 tsp cayenne

1 stalk celery chopped

2 tsp lemon juice

8 oz. (3/4" by 2") thin slices smoked salmon

thin sliced cucumber

freshly ground pepper

your favorite crackers (I use wheatsworth)

fresh dill sprigs

hot sauce*

Habanero powder*

Fresh habanero slices*

1. In a bowl, soften cream cheese and stir in chives, green onion walnuts and celery.

2. Add lemon juice and spices and mix well.

3. Spread mixture on salmon slices and season with pepper, roll up to form neat rolls

4. Place a cucumber slice on each cracker and place a sprig of dill and a salmon roll on each cucumber.

5. Drizzle with remaining lemon juice and garnish with chives if desired.

* To add some more heat you can add a couple drops of habanero sauce to the top of the cucumber during assembly. The sauce I use has cloves and honey which seem to compliment the flavor of the salmon.

For Chilehead sensibilities I also used dried powdered Red Savina Habanero flakes as well as adding a slice of fresh habanero to the filling of each roll. You might want to play around with the seasonings...

salmon rolls may be prepared several hours in advance, and assembled just before serving to prevent the cracker from getting soggy.

[Pitmaster]

Here's a recipe I've used with great success. From Homebook of Smoke Cooking Meat, Fish & Game by Jack Sleight and Raymond Hull.

Basic Fish Brine

Skin on fish fillets/ or whole salmon ( this recipe can be reduced for smaller amounts of brine)

4 gallons water

5lbs (8 cups) salt

1 LB dark brown sugar

11/2 cups lemon juice

2 tablespoons liquid garlic (or fresh pureed)

2 tablespoons liquid onion (or fresh pureed)

Use a plastic or glass container

Dissolve salt first, then add other ingredients and mix thoroughly.

Options--add Tabasco sauce or dill or use honey or blackstrap molasses instead of brown sugar.

I will usually boil 1 gallon of water to help dissolve the salt. Cool then puree lemon juice, fresh onions and garlic and add to brine. Then add 3 gallons ice cold water and stir.

Brine according to the following guidelines

Fillet

1lb-----1 hour

1-2lbs--2 hours

2-3lbs--3 hours

Whole---estimated size of one fillet

Keep fish submerged and weight with plate if necessary.

Rinse fish thoroughly after brining. Allow to dry on racks in a cool, airy place, ( I place on an oven or cookie rack and let a fan blow over on low) screened from flies while the pellicle forms.

Smoke over low heat 150-250 degrees until fish flakes easily.

I prefer to use alder chunks or chips. Apple, cherry, or other mild hard fruitwood may be used.

Marinade #1 - Enough brine for two large Salmon fillets.

To 1/2 gallon HOT water add:

1/2 cup Kosher salt

1-1/2 cup brown sugar

3 Tbs. garlic powder

3 Tbs. coarse ground black pepper

1/2 cup soy sauce

1 Tbs. crushed bay leaves

Stir until dissolved. Allow brine to cool. Add salmon fillets, soak covered for 3 hours in refrigerator. Remove fillets and air dry for at least 1 hour. Smoke in a single layer for about 2 hours at 250 degrees or until firm and golden.

Marinade #2 - Enough brine for two large Salmon fillets.

3 cups water

1 cup soy sauce

1/3 cup brown sugar

1/3 cup white sugar

1/3 cup Kosher salt

1/2 tsp. onion powder

1/2 tsp. garlic powder

1/2 tsp. pepper

Stir until ingredients are dissolved. Marinate fillets overnight. Air dry fillets and smoke as directed above.

[Yooperdad]

That's an awesome collection of information Pitmaster. Thanks.

[joelsanders]

great post now i'm hungry!

[shu9265]

Here is another one:

1cup morton canning & pickleing salt

1 to 2 cups dark brown sugar. your taste

1/2 cup soy sauce

1/2 cup teriyaki sauce

8 to 10 oz honey

1 tbsp lemon juice

1 tbsp seasoned salt

1 tbsp onion powder

1 tbsp garlic powder

1 tbsp lemon pepper

1/2 tbsp liquid smoke

2 1/2 gallons apple juice

3 cups water

3 to 5 bay leaves

mix all but apple juice in pan bring to boil stir until all dry ingredients are disolved

add 1/2 gallon apple juice ,let cool down.rinse and add fish into large plastic bowl cover

with brine,weigh down with plate.refridgerate 12 hrs or overnight. remove from brine rinse

well put on cooling racks for bout 1 hr.can put fan blowing on to speed up sheening process

save brine for top pan in smoker.while fish is sheening soak wood chips 1/4 gallon apple juice

after fish get a sheen on smoke at 200 to 300 degrees 4to8 hrs add chips as needed enjoy

[BRIAN0214]

Thanks for all the help guys. I ended up just doing a very simple brine of 1 cup of salt to 7 cups of water and a 1/2 cup of brown sugar. I let it soak for 24 hours and used oak wood for the smoke. It turned out great! I will try a more complicated recipe next time. Thanks for all input! Pittmaster I would love to come to your house for a salmon dinner and appetizer!!!

[Pitmaster]

A photo. You can see the lure hooked it its mouth. That was an excellent salmon.

[Yooperdad]

Pitmaster, tried the hand salt method (plus a little brown sugar) and smoked the filets yesterday, with "outstanding" results. Thank you very much.

In one of your posts you had the following suggestion:

serve hot-out-of-the-smokehouse with a little dab of cheesy lemon-dill cream sauce on the side

Found lots of recipes for lemon dill sauce and made one of them, but none with the "cheesy" addition. Might you have a recipe to share for that too?

Thanks again.

[Pitmaster]

In one of your posts you had the following suggestion:

serve hot-out-of-the-smokehouse with a little dab of cheesy lemon-dill cream sauce on the side

Found lots of recipes for lemon dill sauce and made one of them, but none with the "cheesy" addition. Might you have a recipe to share for that too?

Thanks again.

No I don't have one for the cheesy lemon dill sauce. I can't even think of a cheese that would work well in this application. I did a Google search and I wonder if the original author may have meant creamy vs. cheesy or maybe he cooked the cream a little to thicken and called it cheesy. I posted a note on the BBQ list I got that from. I haven't seen Dan post in years but a few of the old timers might know. If I hear anything I'll post it.

Just to clarify on recipes I post. I've been on a few BBQ lists and forums for over 10 years and have quite a collection of stuff and articles that were written years ago. I trust all of the people who posted the techniques and recipes. Some I can make attribution to but most I can't. Most of the recipes are not and can not be served commercially because you can't create them with the dedicated technique a home cook will.

In general, I'm a fan of keep it simple in most things. I cook on a WSM and smaller sized mobile smoker. I can feed 200 brisket and pork butts with no problem.

[JWheeler]

I dabbled years ago with smoking my own, and just could not get it "perfect". It was always too dry, or the flavor wasn't quite right. Some of the information here sure seems helpful. It's been a while since I smoked my own. And one thing I have noticed from the place that smokes mine is the incredible flavor, the moistness of the fish. These dudes have it down to a science. They must add spice during, or more likely after smoking. Here's a photo of some vacuum sealed

This is lemon pepper. If you look you can see the pepper on the fish. Anyway, I think that smoking is a labor of love and like anything else only gets better with time.

[Priority1]

I have used different spices but I always add Kosher Salt enough to just float an egg. The salt is part of the preserving process. The last couple of times I put the fish in gallon zip-locks and then added the brine. Lay the zip-locks on their sides and flip after a few hrs. Using the bags you don't need as much brine.

[Pitmaster]

Found lots of recipes for lemon dill sauce and made one of them, but none with the "cheesy" addition. Might you have a recipe to share for that too?

I've been poking around and think I figured this out. I strongly suspect the "cheesy" addition is cream cheese. This makes sense because cream cheese and salmon does go well together. You might play around with a basic lemon dill sauce and add it to cream cheese.