timtube Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 http://www.ludingtondailynews.com/news/50874-offshore-classic-preliminary-winner-withdraws-after-protest
diesel Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 (edited) this is a crock myself i dont really care that much for team best chance too. but to have a cry baby saying they were not fast enough to net fish come on. grow up and dont b@@@h and whine when someone else is out fishing you in a tourney. Edited July 20, 2010 by diesel because i can
Twill23 Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 I think its extremely pathetic to protest the "slow netting." It's different if they're purposely shaking fish off, but come on. I think BCT did the right thing. Let the lil boys have their way.
1mainiac Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 Certainly not going to accuse them of cheating but the big boys always seem to lose a lot of small fish and I am not meaning just Bill and Dave. I don't know about you guys but if I had won the Ludington event I would have fought the protests all the way if I felt I did nothing wrong. Sorry but they basiclly pled no contest to the charges which in court is a guilty plea where you hope for smaller charges in this case it means they can keep fishing in tourneys. Lots of ways to lose a fish at the back of a boat but when you see a team that nearly never loses a big fish miss 3 or 4 small fish at the boat in a row something is up. I am not talking about Bill and Dave either but fishing in tourneys the last couple of years I have seen it done several times. The reason I would not and did not protest is it is tough to prove it is intentional. But when you fish the same water with similar programs and at the end of the day you have a mixed box and the other boats only have big fish kinda makes you wonder.
Boltman Posted July 21, 2010 Posted July 21, 2010 I certainly wouldn't accuse anyone, but when it comes down to Brass Tax.. The PRO"S KNOW"S.... meaning they Know how to win and they know how to lose, and we ll know that it's the back fo the boat where MOST fish are lost... intentional or NOT....Makes you wonder, how they keep winning so many events.... yah know...but Hell it's just fishing.. not like it's Nascar or anything Hahahahahahahahahhaha Give me a break..
spoonfed Posted July 21, 2010 Posted July 21, 2010 The way I look at it is if they didnt do anything wrong, then why withdraw?
Twill23 Posted July 21, 2010 Posted July 21, 2010 They withdrew to prove a point. If a full fledged investigation is put into affect and they do turn up something, they are banned for life from all of the circuit tournaments. They had an observer onboard, apparently that wasn't good enough. There is also a shot at 1000 bucks for the person who turns someone in. Personally I think its a case of jealousy. Why risk their name and sponsors for a bull s*** complaint. Smart move regardless if they're "guilty" or not
mayvillemark Posted July 21, 2010 Posted July 21, 2010 I am with maniac sounds like a guilty plea to me I heard they already are losing sponsers anyway.
spoonfed Posted July 21, 2010 Posted July 21, 2010 They withdrew to prove a point. If a full fledged investigation is put into affect and they do turn up something, they are banned for life from all of the circuit tournaments. They had an observer onboard, apparently that wasn't good enough. There is also a shot at 1000 bucks for the person who turns someone in. Personally I think its a case of jealousy. Why risk their name and sponsors for a bull s*** complaint. Smart move regardless if they're "guilty" or notAnd what point did they prove? That by withdrawing they avoided the investigation that could have banned them? The observer said they may have shook fish when he was questioned. The rule is in black and white, the ludington tourney board has no balls to see it through and inforce the rule.
Twill23 Posted July 21, 2010 Posted July 21, 2010 He said they were slow at getting the net..... besides their trophy case is full so I'm sure they didn't care about giving up a couple grand ove risking even more controversy over it
silver one Posted July 21, 2010 Posted July 21, 2010 The problem with being number one is that everyone is eyeing you. I use to think Bill and Dave were kind of stuffy but once you get to know them and they see you around the fishing industry and get to know your face there just like any other fishermen, and will atleast say hello. I think they are a class act. Now as someone on this site says,? ( shut up and fish).
Side JOB Posted July 21, 2010 Posted July 21, 2010 I sat threw a seminar they put on at the fishing show this spring. Both of them were more then helpful. They answered every question asked. They both seemed like stand up guys. I still look up to them. I wasnt there to judge so im not going to.
wild at heart Posted July 21, 2010 Posted July 21, 2010 They had 4 or 5 break offs with small fish(5+#) that got caught in the rigger wires. You do the Math.
JWheeler Posted July 21, 2010 Posted July 21, 2010 Blah blah blah. It's over and done with, and there isn't anything that any of us are going to be able to do about it, other than speculate. It is in the hands of the overseers of this venue to take whatever action that they deem appropriate to resolve this matter.
diesel Posted July 21, 2010 Posted July 21, 2010 I am with maniac sounds like a guilty plea to me I heard they already are losing sponsers anyway.big talk from a little guy. who are your sponsors? this is what is wrong with all the forums. jelousy plan and simple. thats why this is my last post on this site. nothing to do with mike he's a good guy and there are a few and i stress few other good guys they know who they are without me saying thier names. i have talked to mike on the phone and in person and even fished with him on his boat. we lost fish. on the boat i fish out of we have lost fish at the back of the boat. just because bill and dave are charter captians and pro staff members every one thinks the are cheaters and are guilty of cheating. i am friends with 5 or 6 differnt charter captians who are also pro staffers some out of south haven some out of st joe and have fished with them also and guess what WE LOST FISH AT THE NET so are they cheaters also? no it happens and they cont. to fish. and like mike said unless someone who was on the boat speaks up everything is assumstion and after speaking to bill and dave yesterday i know thier side of the story. sucks that this has come down to this but when guys bash other fishermen out of jelousy it takes the fun out of the sport. i will still answer people out on the lake and give them god's honest 100% truth on what we are seeing for fish in what water temp depth and so forth because we are all out for 1 thing and thats to have a good time doing what we enjoy
Twill23 Posted July 21, 2010 Posted July 21, 2010 I will totally agree with the jealousy factor. Too many people think they are better than what they are. They can't take a loss and take it like a man.
sjk984 Posted July 22, 2010 Posted July 22, 2010 Man I feel like its february the way this post is going. Weather or not they cheated is up to the governing body. I was planning on fishing some of the bigger tourney's next year but now I think I will stick to outings and fun tourneys. And there a alot of good guys here that have helped me out way more than they had to And I for one thank them all. Steve
spoonfed Posted July 22, 2010 Posted July 22, 2010 It has nothing to do with February, the fact of the matter is they got caught by 3 other boats cheating. ( as per the rules presented to everybody in the tournament) It has nothing to do with jealousy or anything else. Its called Cheating. I fish the tournament trail. If you get caught you are done. that is my understanding. to withdraw with out a investigation is wrong. The boats that turned them in had nothing to gain, we are all competitive and want to win. Cheating is lieing! They weighed there box knowing so! This has nothing to do with other boats gaining anything, just honest guys sick of BS! The bad thing is the ludington tournament used to have 300 boats, the numbers have decreased over the years and this will hurt them also because they turned there heads on this.
sjk984 Posted July 22, 2010 Posted July 22, 2010 now every pro boat has can cheat at ludington and get away witrh it or withdraw that seams pretty simple
JWheeler Posted July 22, 2010 Posted July 22, 2010 This whole thing just stinks, and from the sounds of things could leave a black eye on the tournament trail. There are a few things about this situation that leave us wondering. A little on the angler side, and a little on the tournament trail's side. Hopefully they can move forward after this fiasco and rule on situations that are questionable with certain clarity. I'll sit idly by and see what comes of this mess.
tray19682005 Posted July 22, 2010 Posted July 22, 2010 I dont know them only read ludington paper today and will pass on what was said. Best chance two was seen by 3 other boats including their tournement observer on all thre boats that, small Fish were skipped across surface and they were seen repeadely using net hoop to free small fish from hooks by reapeadly poking them to dislodge them so them didnt have to submit small fish. The observer from best chance has not publicly commined yet. I pass no judment on them but it seems a bad practice but im shure they are not the only boat that was doing this?The investigantion is contuing per ludington daily news today.
Twill23 Posted July 22, 2010 Posted July 22, 2010 I'm going to bow out of this thread. It seems someone has taken it a little too personally. You were not on the boat. None of the small boats watching through binoculars were on the boat. You don't have a clue if they were undersized lake trout or not. Now if gl2s still had cameras on the boat then there is No issue. There is an observer on the boat, if he did not step up and say something immediately then that's an issue with the way the tournament is run, not just an issue with what may or may not have happened.
Adam Bomb Posted July 22, 2010 Posted July 22, 2010 Bottom line, unless you were there your just speculating. And from all the posts ive read we seem to be getting no where. One member has already decided to leave over this, lets not continue this negativety. Everyone has said their piece and as grown men you should just agree to disagree. Whats done is done, bickering here isnt going to change what happened. If you have something more to say i encourage you to use the PM function instead of the public forum.
1mainiac Posted July 22, 2010 Posted July 22, 2010 One thing that is a issue is the fact that the observer on the boat stated he knew very little about Salmon fishing and was not paying attention. If that is true then part of the blame should go to the team who provided the observer. Lots of theses guys are paid to be observers yet a few of them just go along for the boat ride. If the observer has no clue what is going on then all he is doing is taking a boat ride and filling out a sheet of paper for the captain to sign. I really have no issue with BC2 I have met them many times and they are always great guys to talk to lots of guys get sloppy with the net when they know the fish will cost them points. My issue is 2 things first better observers are needed and second this sets a new low point for our sport as now if caught cheating you can just withdraw? The sad part for BC2 is now they will be considered cheaters which has many already talking about how long they have been cheating when it was not proved either way so no way to get the stink off. I seriously doubt they tried to cheat or that they were the only ones having problems. The rules say you can't intentional knock off a fish says nothing about a accident so you have your best man net the big fish and your worst net the little ones. What is hard to prove is intent to cheat but bottom line is I would fish against them any chance I got cause they are among the best. Most of us know the difference between a clean net job and a lost fish is very minor but if what people say is true it is sad.
GLF Posted July 22, 2010 Posted July 22, 2010 The bad thing is the ludington tournament used to have 300 boats, the numbers have decreased over the years and this will hurt them also because they turned there heads on this.The days of 300 boat tourneys is long gone. The economy is still in the tank and no one has any money. Sponsorships have pulled back on their sponsorship spendings, and there no longer is a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. People are fishing smaller club events now instead of spending the money on these big events.I saw the same thing happen to the bass fishing events I use to fish. At one time, there use to be 150 boats in each event, with a waiting list to get in. When I got out of tournament bass fishing, there was less than 50 boats per event.If you want to discuss this in this post, keep your posts clean. No references to someone pulling heads out of ass and such!I was not on the boat. I will not judge BCT, and neither should anyone else!
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