New Tournament/ Need honest input

[1mainiac]

I prefer it be a individual tournament where you have to catch your own fish however if I have to register everyone I fish with never mind. I will not even consider asking friends and family who fish with me a couple times a season to pony up in case I get a big fish. If I am in and I catch a big fish and do not cheat that is all that should matter if everyone in the boat has to be in I won't be in. But that is just me others might not care.

[Paulywood]

I think the best way to curb cheating is for everyone in the boat to be registered. Like Kevin said, that is how they run it over on Lake Ontario and it has been successful. For a $30 fee even if your whole crew wasn't registered every time it would be worthwhile to me. Say you fished 30 trips in a year. If your whoel crew was registered for 6 of those trips it would still only be $5 per trip.

[Paulywood]

From the sounds of it at least a few of the organizers are bait shop owners. That would go a long way toward the integrity of the people doing the weighing. But I agree, everyone involved with the winning fish should be subject to the lie detector. That is another reason everyone on the boat should have to be registered. By registering you would be agreeing to the rules of the event and subject to the polygraph. If someone doesn't register they wouldn't necesarily have to take a polygraph and it could lead to a mess.

It would seem that a great deal of the policing would fall upon those that weigh the fish in (bait shops). Will they be subjected to the lie detector test too?

I am in favor of not having a boat registration. This would help build the pot and increase the chances of the "weekend warrior" winning.

[HitMan]

So your saying that each charter boat would have to pay $450? Then, who wins... the person on the charter boat who caught the fish or the boat captain?

[wild at heart]

Pauly, were thinking a lot alike. Yes, the tackle shops can also be polygraphed. They also will all be trained to insure consitancy. When you weigh a fish you, your witness, and the weigh person will all sign the entry form swearing to the honestly and the authenticty.

We know we will not please everyone, and I agree with you that we will pick up some momentum each year if we run a good show. (especially with the guys that catch one that would of "cashed" had it been entered.)

[wild at heart]

Jon,

I was just picking out a random number. The difficulty would be how do you be fair with a guy like you that might take out 400 guys a year, a smaller charter that takes out 100, a retiree that takes out 50, and a guy like me that takes out maybe 20.

As far as who get the money, the check goes to the guy who enters it, and signs the entry form. The LOC states in its rules to please discuss and decide how this money will be split ahead of time.

[2UNREEL]

My Kids are the age 3 and 4....Or my nephew that's 15. Would they need to sign up as well? They go fishing with me quite often. I can legally run rods for them and put fish in the box. What kind of rules or entry fees and lie detectors applies to this situation? This individual rule thing could get tricky.....something to think about.

[wild at heart]

There will be an age cut-off for kids in the boat not needing to be licensed. And there will be a youth license for a reduced price to get in the main tournament and a youth catagory(probably 10 or 12 up to 17). You will have to have at least 2 licensed people on board to be legal so that there is a witness.

[sjk984]

I have not fished any tourneys yet but I will this year. I just couldnt compete with a charter boat so it would be like me throwing away $90. The simple fact is that the shear number of fish they will catch assure them on better odds. I may only make it over there 8-10 times a year where as they are out 3-5 days a week.

Steve

[1mainiac]

There will be an age cut-off for kids in the boat not needing to be licensed. And there will be a youth license for a reduced price to get in the main tournament and a youth catagory(probably 10 or 12 up to 17). You will have to have at least 2 licensed people on board to be legal so that there is a witness.

That I could live with if I only need one other licensed person on board I would be in I won't win but at least can afford to play. The idea of having to register everyone I fish with in case I get lucky is not worth it. Have a couple of guys I fish with a lot register and making me and them legal I can live with that. It does however rule out guys fishing by themselves. So I enter and one evening I am bored and head over to the pier and the heavens smile and give me a huge fish i am all alone would it be legal? Not trying to nitpick much but kinda playing devils advocate as to things I could see happening. I guess my point is if my word can't be trusted so I need to carry a legal witness with me anytime I fish seems like a bit of over kill. Again not trying to be too critical but it seems like some of this comes down to the group saying we can trust them with all the money but they can't trust us to follow the rules. Also I am not even sure Charter boats should be allowed to register as anything other than witness's for their customers since all they do is assist people in catching fish. So another question if I am registered and catch a winning fish while on a charter boat am I expected to split the prize with the boat? I really think the only requirement needs to be the person who enters the fish as his needs to be the one who actually caught the fish. Also I can see a lot of minor issues popping up no matter how you run it I do however think it is a cool idea but involves a lot of careful wording to keep it clear.

[wild at heart]

Maniac1,

First thanks for the input.

2nd realize that we are not inveting a new idea for a tournament here, we are trying to bring a oppertunity to our area that is very sucessful on Lake O.

Last year the LOC gave out apx $84000 using this format. Over their 10+ years of expereince they have developed a set of rules that work. We are tweaking the rules a little to fit our circumstances here. For $25 in the LOC

1st place is a guaranteed $20000. Thats huge. And from what I've been told we have more potenial fisherman to draw from here. And so far the interest has been huge.

Now we all realize the biggest issue is in requiring that everyone on the boat have a ticket. As much as we have tried we can't find a fair way around it and I'm sure thats why the LOC does it this way. All of us realize that there will just some days when we won't be "legal". But on the days we are for mere $30 we will be in the hunt for some pretty nice cash. And there will be bi-weekly port prizes and a Memorial Day Week-end kick of prize.

As far as the honesty/integity issue goes, I wish that we didn't even have to address it. But you put up a prize of $20k and some people will do anything they can to win. The rules just try to curb this and make it hard for those that would cheat, and reasure the rest of us that we have a fair chance to not get cheated out by someone else.

[GLF]

Its impossible to prevent someone from trying to cheat in a tournament. This includes the tournaments on the tournament trail. Too many rods, leaders to long, catching and releasing fish, etc, etc, etc....

What you have to remember, is that a BIG needs to be caught first. Once a BIG fish is caught, then the bragging and such begins amongst friends, which make it even harder.

Anyone can catch a big fish. The more time spent on the water increases ones odds of winning. Its the people who spend the most time on the water that have the best chance. People who are serious about the LOC tourney will take a week off work and spend the whole week fishing.

What about pier fisherman? Can they get in this also?

I recomment ending this around the 2nd week of August instead of going to Labor Day before the run begins. When the fish stage in Muskegon Lake before the run, its a snag fest! Hopefully the weigh in people will inspect for fowl hooked fish.

[2UNREEL]

Anyone can catch a big fish. The more time spent on the water increases ones odds of winning. Its the people who spend the most time on the water that have the best chance. People who are serious about the LOC tourney will take a week off work and spend the whole week fishing.

This is true however it usually winds up that the guy that decided to do this on a whim and only fished 2 times in his life catches a fish of a lifetime. This is the same way with big buck contests. That is what makes these things fun, I can't wait to give it a try.

[wild at heart]

Good points GLF. Peir fisherman will be welcome, they will just have to get someone to sign a breif witness statement. Our feeling about ending on Labor Day weekend was to make sure we had time for the big ones to arrive and usually we don't have a lot of the run before that. Hopefully that last couple of weeks will bring in a lot of entries and excitment. Our rules will allow you to fish inside of the peirs up to the natural shoreline, and the weigh stations are going to be carefully looking for anything that could tip off an illegal entry.

[1mainiac]

Good points GLF. Peir fisherman will be welcome, they will just have to get someone to sign a breif witness statement. Our feeling about ending on Labor Day weekend was to make sure we had time for the big ones to arrive and usually we don't have a lot of the run before that. Hopefully that last couple of weeks will bring in a lot of entries and excitment. Our rules will allow you to fish inside of the peirs up to the natural shoreline, and the weigh stations are going to be carefully looking for anything that could tip off an illegal entry.

Kevin first off I am just throwing out problem ideas as I think of them this type of thinking should help you prepare for situations that will come up. Really I would think that just like boats everyone on the pier should be required to enter as well to make it fair for those of us who spent thousands for our spot to stand and fish. The winning fish can be caught at anytime Ask Vince about the 30lber they dragged in the rod holder for several min before he had someone grab the rod. Honestly the way this sounds so far I would have to put together a group based solely on fishing this and not allow any one without a entry on the boat after the 4th of July.

[Paulywood]

"Really I would think that just like boats everyone on the pier should be required to enter as well to make it fair for those of us who spent thousands for our spot to stand and fish."

"Honestly the way this sounds so far I would have to put together a group based solely on fishing this and not allow any one without a entry on the boat after the 4th of July."

Neither of these statements make any sense to me. I really hope you were just kidding about the first one. Pier fisherman have the same rights the guys in a boat do. People with boats already have a great advantage and I see no reason why a witness statement and the use of a polygraph, if needed, wouldn't be sufficient. As for the second, I think you are way over analyzing this. I wouldn't let the fact if someone is registered impact my fishing. And if someone on my boat did happen to catch a monster and they weren't registered, oh well. Sh!t happens. Like Kevin said, these rules have already proven to be successful on Lake Ontario. They aren't reinventing the wheel here, just bringing a great tournament to Lake Michigan. There is no reason the rules used on Lake O won't work here. Sounds to me like you guys are doing a great job Kevin, keep it up.

[1mainiac]

Hey Nick I am playing devils advocate and tossing out possible issues and problems. The simple fact is much of this is rules that really can't be enforced evenly for every situation. Since the tournament is pretty much the entire big lake salmon season you have a couple choices if you enter one is to treat the entire season as a contest or consider it a lottery ticket and hope you get lucky. If it is a contest we have a right to try and win if not I guess you can spend the money and hope you get lucky and get your big fish on a legal day and if everyone on the boat is a entrant than only the guy holding the lucky rod wins so you would have to have a agreement with everyone on the boat to share or there will be issues. Again I like the idea but the devil is in the details here is a example you invite your buddy at work to fish with you as a fill in for your team and he gets a winning fish and decides to keep all the money are you really gonna say stuff happens or is there going to be hard feelings. I can see my deadbeat brother walking off the with the winning fish and as usual not even helping with boat gas. I can also see people demanding a share of the winning prize or refusing to sign a witness statement.

[1mainiac]

They are also running a boat entry division where you register the boat. http://www.loc.org/

The LOC I am looking at is also broken down into 3 season a spring derby a summer derby and a fall derby.

Another question is who keeps the fish to have it available for all the testing listed in the LOC rules.

All my big fish go in the smoker would suck to have someone demand I bring the fish in for testing after it has been smoked. Or will the weighmaster be required to pull a sample from each fish and store it in case testing is required.

[Paulywood]

To be honest that has nothing to do with the people running the tournament. They just deal with trying to run a fair contest. Who you have fishing on your boat is up to you. And I can't think of anyone who fishes with me that would do something like that. Like I have said, they are using the exact same rules that work on Lake Ontario, why wouldn't they work here?

[wild at heart]

None of the tournaments we fish have completely enforcable rules. For the most part, your out of site and on your honor.

1mainiac, I believe the LOC requires that you hang on to any fish that makes the top 10. I can't believe your would be worried about eating a fish that might be worth thousands.

The LOC strongly suggests that how a prize is split up should be decided before its caught. My suggestion would be to talk about it before you set lines and if you do bring in a fish that looks like a winner, write something up and have everyone sign it while your all happy and before anyone has time to start having 2nd thoughts. I have already heard some great ideas for what to do at this point if the fisherperson that caught it changes their mind about wanting to share.

[2UNREEL]

Its getting down to the wire, have you set start dates or have an alternate website that has any more info? Is this something that may happen this year or the next? Pardon if these questions have already been addressed. I am loading my calender with dates and would like to know if there is going to be any special events for this.

[wild at heart]

Still working on the details. $$$($ummer $almon $lam) will start Memorial Weekend and run through Labor Day Weekend. There will be a kick off prize for Memorial Weekend. The web site will be up in a few weeks (www.summersalmonslam.com) with the rules, weigh stations, and lots more.

Entry tickets will go on sale at the weigh stations as soon as they are printed.

[1mainiac]

Hey Kevin you have done a pretty job of making sense of this I will be in it I still kinda think the season is too long and yu should do like the LOC in NY. And break it to 3 seasons so a guy does not buy a ticket the last week and win in all.

[wild at heart]

Your right the LOC has 3 seasons and its $25 for each one or $65 for all 3. Our feeling is that we wanted something for the whole summer so that most of the time your out there you've got something on the line to keep it more interesting. Plus with a port prize every 2 weeks at each port that should keep interest up(if you win 1 port prize out of the dozen you got more than your money back). I was hoping for a prize for each species but that will have to wait for next year after we see how things work out. We are also looking for a sponser to take on 4th of July Weekend and Labor Day weekend for an additional prize. "Big Weenie" has already agreed to sponser the Memorial Weekend kick off prize.

[1mainiac]

Hey Kevin I talked with Bill at Shoreline Services the other day and he mentioned he would be a weigh in for Muskegon. Is this all set then has almost been a couple weeks since any update?