flasher/dodger a must have??

[PofC]

I have been fishing a couple years now have 2 riggers,300 copper and 3 through full lead cores,and dipsy poles(not crazy about these having a hard time getting releases set right.)Should I run a flasher dodger on one or both riggers to attrack fish to my spread?I have run spin doctors on dipsys and sometimes on long lines. I have been running riggers clean with spoons or plugs,with a free sliding stacker.Is a fixed stacker better? I love catching fish off the riggers much much better than anything else.Sometimes cranking in 400ft of line is a pita,more like dragging a fish in instead of fighting it.Sorry I got a little long winded. Mike

[KJ pluggin]

If I was to set up your line this is how I would do it. Riggers: I would probably start out with one flasher-fly setup (FF) and a spoon on the other rigger. I would set it up so the spoon ran just behind and below the FF setup. If the fish seem to be hitting the FF combo I would probably switch out the spoon for another FF. If the fish are not hitting the riggers at all I would probably go with spoon on both riggers and run longer leads. Dipsys: On the dipsys I would run FF combos off of each side. When you run your dipsys what kind of line are you running on them? If you are using mono, that could be the reason you are having a hard time getting them to release correctly. The mono will have to much stretch to trip the dipsy if you have to much line out. I would suggest using wire or braid for you dipsy lines. Long lines: For you copper and core you will have to make adjustments as the day goes on to give the fish what they want. As for sliders and stackers I would probably go with fixed sliders. I do not run these very often but there are times when I will put them down. Sometimes less is more. Hope this helps.

[anonymous]

I highly agree with Kyle on the previous reply. Switch to braid or wire on your dipsy's and don't give up on them, they are sometimes my hottest presentation. If they are not firing, trying a spoon on one side is worth a try and if it works, switch the other one over. But remember that your dipsy's and riggers are working together, so changing one thing can affect all of them. Another thing to try if your dipsy's and riggers are not working during daylight periods is to swap in a slide diver or 1-2# lead ball with a 50 ft or longer lead in place of a dipsy. This stealthy presentation is sometimes the ticket. It is tough to beat fighting a big King or Steelhead on a rod with a lead ball. I attach the ball with 2 church walleye board clips or 2 offshore OR-16 (red) clips and a large split ring. I am not a big fan of dropping lead to the bottom of our precious waters intentionally when a fish hits. Good luck and more importantly, have fun.

[Priority1]

I have been fishing a couple years now have 2 riggers,300 copper and 3 through full lead cores,and dipsy poles(not crazy about these having a hard time getting releases set right.)Should I run a flasher dodger on one or both riggers to attrack fish to my spread?I have run spin doctors on dipsys and sometimes on long lines. I have been running riggers clean with spoons or plugs,with a free sliding stacker.Is a fixed stacker better? I love catching fish off the riggers much much better than anything else.Sometimes cranking in 400ft of line is a pita,more like dragging a fish in instead of fighting it.Sorry I got a little long winded. Mike

Mike,

Let me be the first to Welcome you to the GLF site. I know you will like it here.

I don't fish for salmon as much as I used to, but our Dipsy setups most always produced. There will be a ton of great advice from our Salmon experts. Don't be afraid to experiment. Fishing with other productive fishermen, is the best way to shorten the learning curve. Take the information and fine tune it to your setup. It's as simple as, "Finding out what they want and giving them lots of it". With salmon it definitely can be your Total presentation. Most fishermen like to run the horizontal, and vertical V Patern.

Again Welcome aboard.

[Nailer]

Mike, a big welcome to the site.

I like spoons or Jplugs on the riggers and cores.

I will most always have a flasher/fly on the divers. The only time I change this is late evening. Then I will switch the high diver to a Moonshine spoon.

I like to run long leads on my divers. 6'-9'

[plumkrazy]

i am with ken i always have flasher flies on diver but my lead are 10 for a 9 foot low diver rod and 11to 12 feet on a 10 6 high diver rod

[1mainiac]

best spread for me last year was a 11 in Pro Troll Blue Bubble flasher with a green fly on my deepest rigger about 10ft behind the ball. Clean spoon with a slider on other rigger above and behind that. Divers with flasher fly combos and soons and 300 copper with the copper taking a lot of fish outside of that setup would be various other core and board setups. While my diver program was not as hot last season it seemed to bring fish into the spread, The deep rigger with the big board and fly got a lot of late morning fish and the 300 copper was hot most of the season once the water warmed up.

[HitMan]

You got to have an 11 inch Pro-Troll HotChip Double Pearl Fishscale flasher with an Oceana Rapture Fly or Frosted Fern Rapture Fly.

[PofC]

Thanks to all for the help.I do have braid on my dipsy rods.I think my big problem with them is i got frustratated with them from the start either I would have them to weak and they would release on there own and get into another line.Or they would not release at all and you might know what it is like to pull in a unreleased dipsy. so I purchased different lengths of lead or copper to target the dipsy depths.Most of the time it is me and one other person so 6 poles in the water.So I should have my deepest rigger with a flasher /fly combo?? length from ball?? flasher to fly length??

Are you all catching fish on dipsy's because of the depth they are set at or because of some other reason. Could I do the same thing with a lead or copper rod with a flaher/fly setup at the same depth?

WOW that is a lot of questions.Thanks a ton Mike

[Nailer]

Thanks to all for the help.I do have braid on my dipsy rods.I think my big problem with them is i got frustratated with them from the start either I would have them to weak and they would release on there own and get into another line.Or they would not release at all and you might know what it is like to pull in a unreleased dipsy. so I purchased different lengths of lead or copper to target the dipsy depths.Most of the time it is me and one other person so 6 poles in the water.So I should have my deepest rigger with a flasher /fly combo?? length from ball?? flasher to fly length??

Are you all catching fish on dipsy's because of the depth they are set at or because of some other reason. Could I do the same thing with a lead or copper rod with a flaher/fly setup at the same depth?

WOW that is a lot of questions.Thanks a ton Mike

When were limited to 6 rods, our spread is; 2 riggers with spoons, 2 divers with flasher/fly, and 2 core/copper setups with spoons or plugs.

The deepest rigger will have the shorter lead 25-30'

The other rigger will have a longer lead 40-50'

The diver on the deep rigger side will enough line out to be running 5-10' above the deep rigger.

The other will be set to run 5-10 above the shallow rigger.

The deeper core will go on the deep rigger side, behind an inline board.

This is a good way to search and destroy. If all the fish are coming at a set depth, then we will try and target that depth with more rigs.

What setting are you using on your divers?

Personally I like the bigger rings on the divers, or just the bigger Walker divers set at 1.5.

The bigger divers set at 1-1.5 will run close to %50 of line out. (100 out=50' down)

Like Phil said, the longer the leads from diver to flasher the better.

If you have a small boat, of short working area, than long leads make it hard to net fish.

Don't give up on the divers, get the setting right, and all will be good. If in doubt, watch this video.

What do you have for a boat? If you have any pictures , feel free to upload them.

Edited February 7, 2010 by Nailer

[Nailer]

I have been running riggers clean with spoons or plugs,with a free sliding stacker.Is a fixed stacker better? Mike

Mike we will often use fixed sliders on our riggers.

Generally I set the slider about 10' above the ball.

This is how we attach them.

Edited February 8, 2010 by Nailer

[KJ pluggin]

Are you all catching fish on dipsy's because of the depth they are set at or because of some other reason. Could I do the same thing with a lead or copper rod with a flaher/fly setup at the same depth?

WOW that is a lot of questions.Thanks a ton Mike

Targeting the same depth with copper or core is not going to do the same thing for you that a dipsy diver will. Copper and leadcore are more of a stealth presentation and are very "quiet" in the water. A dipsey on the other hand is very noisy in the water. Because of how the dipsy is pulling it creates a lot of turbulence in the water. That turbulence will attract fish before they even see your presentation. In many situations you might not be taking hits on your dipsys but they may be working as the primary attractor to bring fish into your spread. In my opinion the dipsy is a must have for your spread. You may just have to do a little experimenting and tweaking to find out where they are most productive in your spread.

On thing you can do when you are trying to trip your dipsys is tighten your drag a bit and give it a short quick jerk. If your drag is set to loose you will just pull line out of the drag when your trying to release the dipsy.

[KJ pluggin]

So I should have my deepest rigger with a flasher /fly combo??

Many times I will run a spoon on my deepest rigger. I will set it up to run just below and behind a flasher/ fly combo. When a salmon comes up to take a look at your flasher/ fly combo and doesn't like what he sees he will then drift down and away. This should put him right in line to hit you spoon.

[PofC]

I think I see what you all are saying.a flasher dodger really needs to be out there somewhere ,wether on a rigger or a dipsy to bring fish into the spread.Most of the times I had none out.I would quite often run both riggers clean with spoons or plugs, 300 copper,a full lead core, a half core and three color lead.mostly spoons sometimes a spin doctor and fly on full core or copper.That was my starting point until release at a givin depth then would target that depth.I have depth raider as of last season,love the thing!! should this rigger be the one with a flasher fly combo?

A big Thanks to all for the help.Great picture on the stacker setup!

Mike

[Boltman]

Ken how's the success on the fixed sliders? This is something I's like ta do this year, so let me know, I'm going to make up some Fixed Slider leaders for the pre-empted stirke-a-thon......................Ludington, Look out this year the boltman is going to be launching the attack on the slimmie salmon soon...

[Nailer]

Ken how's the success on the fixed sliders? This is something I's like ta do this year, so let me know, I'm going to make up some Fixed Slider leaders for the pre-empted stirke-a-thon......................Ludington, Look out this year the boltman is going to be launching the attack on the slimmie salmon soon...

This is my opinion on the slider. If your limited to few poles, use them.

If your already running 10-12 rods(or if the fishing is very good) don't bother. Sliders can be a pain. At times they will foul up on there way down, and just make a big mess.

When we fished the WMFL tourneys last year we where limited to just 6 rods, so it made since to run them.

We got fish on the fixed slider.

If you set up some slider lines, use high quality ball bearing snap swivels. Make them about 6' long.

When I run sliders, I put a mag spoon on the main line and a regular spoon on the slider.

Back to the Flasher fly. Most of the guys running them off the rigger, are running them on the deepest set.

If you put a flasher combo on the high rigger, it has the chance to swing over and grab the low one.

I'll set up a poll and we'll see the % of guys running flashers on there divers.

It's set up here.

[anonymous]

We are catching fish on riggers and divers because of the relationship between the two most of the time. I have had times where keeping the two close together worked and other times the opposite applied. On one our last 2009 trips, we were marking fish all over the water column depthwise. We did not catch anything on divers or riggers in bright light until we took off all the flasher/ fly rigs and went to spoons. On one side we put a watermelon spoon 80' ft back on a diver and ran another spoon at 120' on a rigger (about 10' off bottom), the diver spoon started firing so we put on a watermelon spoon on th rigger and brought it up just below the diver and both shut off. We moved the rigger back down and right away the diver started going again. We changed the other side over to that combo and it started producing also. At the same time we caught some fish on copper and lead, but not on the same colors even though we were above and below the hot divers in depth. What I am saying is that most of my trips, I do not have the same thing hot on all presentations. How close or far apart affects riggers and divers and your stealthy long lines do not always produce at the same depths with the same lures as riggers and divers. Learn what works for you based on different conditons you face, start there and never quit asking questions. Up to date info from good anglers in your area helps unlock the puzzle as well. Good luck.

[SUPERTRAMP]

I will second the hard work getting big fish to the boat on Cores or copper, In the early days of Lake Michigan Salmon fishing 1970 to 1985, there were down riggers and pink ladies, they both produced but we never ran dodgers off pink ladies. Then the Dipsy Diver showed up and we ran them because we could spread more lines out. I had 20' Angler Specialty Hawaiian outriggers on my old Supertramp boat and ran a lot of 2 and 1# dropper balls with dodgers and flies behind them. The advent of the big flashers has opened up a lot of possibilities, they troll faster than dodgers, they run straighter they dont swing wildly side to side like a dodger and they can be fished off of dipsies or riggers equally well and at speeds over 3mph. The fixed slider is a standard presentation on my boat but we only run 2 downriggers when the weather warms up.

The fixed slider pictured is my standard rig.

Mike (Supertramp)

Boat MCsquared