Opposition to wind turbines starting to grow

[News]

Many contradictions are emerging as wind project proposals multiply like rabbits across Ontario -- hundreds, totalling more than 3,000 turbines and counting, several of them on the heavily protected Oak Ridges Moraine.

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[1mainiac]

Does anyone actually do the math on this crap or do we just let them shove it down or throats. I live in a 1500 sq ft 3 bedroom house with a garage current electric budget is about 65 a month. Cost to convert to wind power which will not give me power 24 7 so I will be selling some power back and buying some all at differant rates. 225,000.00 with a annual maintaince of roughly 1000 or more per year plus a 10 year life expectancy on the 8000.00 gen set. I don't care how many coats of lipstick they put on this pig it still is ugly.

[Priority1]

Does anyone actually do the math on this crap or do we just let them shove it down or throats. I live in a 1500 sq ft 3 bedroom house with a garage current electric budget is about 65 a month. Cost to convert to wind power which will not give me power 24 7 so I will be selling some power back and buying some all at differant rates. 225,000.00 with a annual maintaince of roughly 1000 or more per year plus a 10 year life expectancy on the 8000.00 gen set. I don't care how many coats of lipstick they put on this pig it still is ugly.

And while we are at it, let's run the numbers on ethanol. Our Gubmint subsidizes all of this BS.

[Phishy]

Corn fuel and wind power...the cost isn't just in producing it, there's the hidden cost...when you grow corn in a field that was CRP it takes away from nesting cover for many birds, including waterfowl, it also drives up the cost of corn in the long run which translates to higher food cost. It takes more fuel to make less fuel….huh?

One of those windmills cost more than my house, to me that's not spending $$ to save $$, that's spending $$ to make $$, looks to good the consumer but somebody is making a fortune on a short term solution. Maintaining these things is going to be horrible a few years down the road. The Alaskan pipeline is already in dire need of maintenance and suddenly there’s no $$ to maintain them…so where did the profit from the pipelines go? I can guess it’s not the consumer.

I don’t know what the solution is, but there seems to be a knee jerk reaction to a problem that needs a long term solution. We need power and a way to generate it, but without the major greed element.

To me the one thing that is constant is solar, but that needs major improvements as well. The good thing - no one has figured a way to stop the sun from shining, but not all places have ample sun. There are major strides being made in the efficiency of solar panels. Let’s hope the greedy don’t find a way to make them unobtainable for the everyday consumer.

[1mainiac]

Solar is cool but 600 bucks to produce 100 watts per panel and that is a 2ft x 4 ft panel and only when the sun shines brightly on it so 600 buck to light a couple of 50 watt bulds during the day makes little sense. Simple fact is we have to learn to use less electricity I guess the massive cost of cap and trade will teach us that pretty soon. Coal and hydro plants are the cheapest Nuclear is best but no one wants one around them much like oil refineries every one knows we need new ones no one will let them be built so we work with outdated plants. Try and ask Al Gore why there are so many lies and miss information in his book and movie and they just shut off your microphone. Over 700 sceintists were asked to study Global Warming nearly 650 of them said there was nothing to it that could be proved want to guess which studies were used to teach our kids and build our new Green future. Oh yea and Polar bears are increasing and the climate has not gone up in temp in nearly 10 years. When I was a kid in school we were told we are on the way for a ICE AGE look up the time lime lines and history will repeat itself many sceintists beleive if there is anything at all to Global Warming it will only slow the on coming ICE AGE. I don't think we are approaching a ICE AGE like a million years ago more like 250 years ago. Very long winters Record snowfalls time will tell but one thing is certain if you trust what you see on the TV you are a in for some rude suprises.

[Rayman96]

Opposition to wind turbines starting to grow

[Rayman96]

Opposition may be growing but we have no power whatsoever.

Ask an intelligent question and all you get back is double-talk.

Little is known about effects on humans and wildlife in general because up until now all projects were built isolated locations. So here we are in the middle of North America and the middle of the great lakes, adding an unknown quantity to our environment, right close to where we live.

One thing for sure, is that no politician who will have one in his back yard.

Jim, you hit the nail on the head. If these politicians have done the math, then they need to go back to school!!!

All of the power that is generated is direct current. DC current is cheap. The cost escalates when converted to useful AC power.

Recently there was an tv program on one of the local stations that featured a home that was totally off the grid. The house was 3/4 under ground. Two wind turbines and a large solar array produced the power which was stored in a huge lead acid battery array out in the garage. He used a corn stove to heat the garage. Propane stove was used to cook meals with in the home. Solar water heating panels were used to heat the home.

I don't recall all of the details, however the home cost him over a half million dollars to set up, not including the price of land. He will not see a payback in his lifetime!!!

The same will be for these wind turbine projects. You will notice that all of these projects are owned by large consortiums. They are mostly global in nature and have no ties to us. The prices that they are paid for KWH is insane. When the crap hits the turbine and it will, they will disappear leaving us holding the bag and owning responsibility.:angry2:

[Just Hook'n]

Do you guys understand cap and trade and what the intent of the system will be? Being an environmental engineer I am not an expert, but I am plugged into the system a little. Jim, seems like you definately have done your homework on solar and wind. Impressive. I still think there is a place for them, but you are right, they have to get more efficient to produce. Right now they are about 2.5-3 times the cost of traditional power. When they (solar in particular) gets to about 1-1.5 times then it becomes more viable.

Cap and trade is about capping the "dirty power" or making them pay for it, which in the long run makes it go away. Anyone remember acid rain? As sportsmen I hope you undertand the devistation that we can do to our natural resources. Cap and trade on Sulfur emissions made acid rain a thing of the passed.

I am certainly not standing on my soap box here, as there are many improvements that need to be made to alternative engery. But it is coming. It will certainly come in many forms - wind, solar, goethermanl, etc etc. Just get ready.

Jim NAILED it when he said we need to use less. That is the first and most appropriate step to control cost.

[1mainiac]

Mark you have the intent on Cap and Trade however the reality is that companies will be allowed to trade credits this only means higher prices for us as the cost of trading the credits will be passed on to the consumer. If you live in a area where all you have is a Coal power plant you will see the cost of the credits every month in your electric bill. the simple fact is if we let the government play Big Brother and run every part of lives it is our own fault.

[Rayman96]

http://thechronicleherald.ca/Business/1148442.html

http://www.cbc.ca/consumer/story/2009/09/24/ontario-green-energy-act.html

http://green.venturebeat.com/2009/10/14/siemens-closer-to-wind-dominance-with-900m-in-turbine-contracts/

The latest is the installation of smart meters. They keep asking for my permission for them to over-ride my A/C setting during peak demand. It's only a matter of time before they mandate this control.

Cap and trade or carbon tax. More than likely a carbon tax for all of north America. It'll end up smoke and mirrors and my costs will skyrocket to the point where spending choices will have to be made. At some point the boat will have to be downsized or eliminated all together.

Ten years ago I drove a V8. Now I drive a V6 and limit my trips to a needs basis only. Did my cost of ownership come down. Not a chance.

Same goes for my home. I have mostly natural gas appliances and a wood burning fireplace. Electric for other essentials. All utilities are used as sparingly as possible. I got rid of the pool a few years ago. I started changing over to these compact fluorescent bulbs. Still waiting for a return on their investment. Also because of mercury content they have to be disposed of as a hazardous waste and not in the regular trash.

So, after pulling the reins in on my utilities, was I rewarded with any savings???? Not a chance. As I use less they increase the service fees to offset profits which came with more consumption.

Under our system there is no personal reward and whether our environment will acquire any benefit is at this point is debatable. By the time we will know for sure we will be in too deep.

The worry is not while I am still working, but when I will be on a fixed income. I've already worked for over 40 years. At this rate retirement is a long way off or may not come at all.

[1mainiac]

I did the math several times this year I seriously doubt I will live long enough to retire At least if I want the mortgage paid off I will be 80.