AP for mercruiser

[GTRIEM]

Hey all, I have done searches for AP for our 1986 23',mercuriser i/o.(alpha1)

I'm just more confused now.

What are you useing on your cable/assisted steering for AP?

AP brands,all nessasary components for the install,how2's,pointers and tips-all greatly appreciated.

Thanks,GTR

[1mainiac]

Well I have been down this road for over 2 years you have 2 basic choices depending on how much you want to spend and keep the cable steering. First choice is a Simrad AP 12R or AP14R which may require you to change your steering cable as well but other than that and the 10 in clearance it needs behind the wheel ( which my boat lacks) it is a straight forward install remove all the current stuff and replace it with theirs install the fluxgate compass and course computer run a couple of tests and take it out in open water and let it learn your boat. Second choice is a Raymarine X5 Smart Pilot which mounts under your steering wheel and is also a straight forward install which most people can do themselves if you want trolling patterns you need to upgrade to a ST70 head which will push the price up just past 1700 bucks. This system was packaged into my boat purchase last Feb however RayMarine kept changing the release date and eventually made me so mad I demanded my money back in Aug last year. Now it is out and I no longer have the extra money plus I am still unsure if I want one after the way they treated me last year. I really want to switch my boat over to Hyd steering and go with the Garmin GHP 10 which will end up costing me close to 4 grand but is a system I really like for several reasons the Shadow Drive being one of the most important as it allows you to grab the wheel and make corrections without shutting down the AP so if something goes wrong you don't have to remember which button to push to steer the boat something that concerns me if my wife ever had to take over in a emergency the last thing I would want is her or anyone else not knowing how to take over the boat. With the Garmin you can make course changes any time from the wheel or from the control panel and if you hold a steady course for 60 sec and let go it maintains the new heading this I think would be very handy for fishing as you can make quick adjustments when a fish is at the back of the boat without messing up the AP or shutting it off.

[plumkrazy]

simrad ap 14r is the one .but you need 10 to 11 inch under dash

[GTRIEM]

So does the simrad or ray require a new cable or a additional cable?

Mine has the morse/sleeved single cable steering.

On some insructions i've seen where an additional rotary and cable are added

and the AP is put on it-does this leave the original steering as is?

On simrad web,the install says it requires a msd50kit it appears to be mounted opposing the steering cable back at the hyd-assist.

What is it?

if the ray and simrad are the only 2 options without going full hyd-what of the 2 would be the best for the trolling /fishing & userfreindly,options to add gps etc.

I have only been on a few boats w/ AP and didnt use them so I am not sure what i am looking for exactly.

thanks,GTR

[1mainiac]

The Raymarine system does not require any steering changes you remove the steering wheel mount the unit on the steering shaft attach the steering wheel to the unit and mount the course computer fluxgate compass and control panel and wire them all together. It is a very simple setup my one issue is my boat is very close to maximum rated size for the system so I am concerned with how well it will work on a bigger boat. it is a rework of the old Sport Pilot which was discontinued several years ago but many still use and like. If you want trolling patterns you need the ST70 control unit with it. If you have the standard Morse single cable the Simrad should mount and work fine if you have the room under the dash for the unit to fit. No matter how you look at it either of them will be cheaper than going to Hyd steering. And once you convert to Hyd steering most of the AP's cost more as well but you get lots more options with Hyd steering. The biggest advantage to Hyd steering is the steering control is much better as the rudder cannot move there is no play in the steering so when driving you don't spend all day chasing the slack in the cable and when you let go of the wheel it won't change course. My cable steering drives me nuts when I am trimming the boat at speed as once I get it trimmed and up on step it wants to change direction back and forth with the slack in the cable setup this usually has me cussing at it untill I finally get the steering and trim all in sync then I am fine. Either of the units will talk to your plotter just fine as long as the GPS has NEMA output so that is really not a issue. All of them will be better than yelling at your friends and family all day to keep the boat on course. In talking with my Raymarine guy at Mariners Center he said the new X5 unit will back troll and stay on course which is one of the things that delayed release. All of them even the Hyd units have similar problems with mouinting the componets and electrical interference issues. I am waiting on the sale of a couple of toys I no longer need to buy one and I may end up with the Raymarine unit.

[GTRIEM]

1maniac,I sure appreitiate your input.

So can the ray AP work w/out using their "universal sterndrive actuator"

The way i'm reading I would need a

- ST70 control

- X10 corepack

- Universal sterndrive actuator

Is this it,or correct?

Wait I should be looking at X5 this must be different.

GTR

[1mainiac]

Nope here is the base system http://www.wmjmarine.com/c32626.html

The drive motor is mounted under the steering wheel you remove the steering wheel install the drive motor assy and a stub shaft and put the wheel on the stub shaft. mount the course computer and Fluxgate compass and control head it comes with a ST 6002 I believe if you want to have the trolling patterns built in you need to upgrade to the ST 70 control head. My issue is I will be nearly at max boat size for the unit so not sure how well it will handle being maxed out it's entire life. Call Mariners Center they have them in stock and have sold several this year the only issue anyone has had was not being able to remove the steering wheel due to corrosion on a Ranger bass boat.

[GTRIEM]

Thanks 1mainiac,I was re-reading the info on rays web as I have confused

this and over thunk it i guess.

that X5 seems to be the most straight forward.

I will see what it cost to swap the control for the st70,at least i hope it can be upgraded as opposed to buying the x5setup and a st70.

Do you know why or what those sterndrive acuators are for?why does it call for this when you use rays "system builder feature".Got me all confused and worried that AP would be WAY out of my price range.

While the ray seems to have nice features and i think it will accept the wireless remote upgrade and the st70 has the patterns,I also will check the Simrad.

Is simrad installed the same way as ray? Except the 11" space required behind steering box.

I know youve had issue with rays slowness or cust.service ect.Is it your opinion that ray and simrad are equally reliable units? how about features that actually get used during a day of trolling and boating on the big lake.Alot of features that do not get used very often are not as important as the few features used every time.

Thanks,GTR

[1mainiac]

Well Raymarine left me mad due to a couple of their reps attitudes Simrad is a solid unit but a little scary as they changed ownership and talked of dropping the cable steering line but the Ray unit is the easiest install if you can remove the steering wheel. Whichj you also have to do with the Simrad system but with the Ray unit you have to be able to reuse the componets with the Simrad if you damage the steering box pulling the wheel it don't matter because you are replaceing it anyhow with their unit. All of the Simrad goes behind the dash except for the control head which is nice but requires a lot of space behind the dash. My steering wheel and throttle are very close to each other so raising the wheel to put the AP under it might help with the Ray system. I don't have enough room behind the dash for the Simrad without cutting into the bulkhead in the head so that kinda ruled it out for me. Mariners Center told me about 1700 for the new Ray system with the ST70 head as they can package it that way but don't stock it that way. Of all the systems I have researched the Garmin wins but requires Hyd steering and costs more because the Simrad is behind the dash it may be a bit quieter as the motor is behind the dash versus above the dash under the wheel on the Ray unit. I think either of them will do a fine job and most of it will come down to how well you program your plotter for many of the cool things to happen. I really don't think I would ever use anything other than a lazy S trolling pattern but who knows if you know there are fish there a Cloverleaf pattern might be productive many of the other patterns are basic search and rescue patterns which I guess you could also use for fishing. But for me I fish shorthanded with my wife a lot so just being able to step away and set gear or net would be great and not yelling at my wife to drive straight could save my marraige who knows. She is aware I can be a complete Ass when fishing if things don't go right but she watches Deadlest Catch all the time so she knows I am not the only boat captain with a attitude.

[GTRIEM]

Haha ok 1mainiac,i sure do understand how AP could save a marriage and some friendships-i too am tired of re-training anyone on the boat how to

drive so i can take a leak or net or set gear,or jeez mabey even reelin a fish.

Anyone who fishes w/ me gets a turn on the wheel but...it comes w/ its problems.AP would possibly let me go with less crew or let me go when some crew cant. also its just the convience of not going off course every time you let loose of the wheel.

I dont see upgrading to hyd on this boat so i supose the ray or simrad is what im gonna decide between.

Thanks for sharing your advice and your previous legwork on the AP units.

Its all down to the money spending i guess.

GTR

[GTRIEM]

Well after pulling covers and crawling around the boat w/ my tape measure,

I have determined that the Simrad AP14R will be the better unit to install.Our cuddy door slides under the steering wheel making screwing the torque bracket on the rayX5 to the bulkhead difficult.

I am located near SouthBend IN. Do any of you know of a seller for the Simrad products? I like to buy from local( Northern IN and Southern MI )and reputable shops if possible, if not what online suppliers have you dealt with and recomend/or not.

Thanks,

GTR

[Steelhead]

George,

Give Darren @ www.Brettsplaceonthebay.com a call. Or you can try Mark and Steve @ Fishdog. I think there website is www.fishdogcompany.com You will be very happy with the Simrad Autopilot.

Troy

[Paulywood]

Here is the best price I have been able to find for it:

http://www.cascadegps.com/store/simrad-autopilots/

[GTRIEM]

Steelhead,I'm afraid to call Darren. I have a new list of rods and tackle that I want to put on the boat.

GTR

[A-Fishy-Anado]

George

This is my first season with my simrad ap 14, i have hydraulic steering so it was much less complicated. In the end they perform the same and you will not even know what to do with yourself on your maiden voyage with it. It is better than i ever imagined. Takes a bit to get used to the constant noise of the unit corrections in rough seas but it sure beats the alternative. The couple hundred extra for the jump from the 12 to the 14 is money well spent as you can take the control right to the back of the boat with you for use of the dodge feature. I haven't had a calm day on the water to calibrate it yet and it still holds a great course....couldn't be happier:grin: you are going to love it....it really changes fishing!

[GTRIEM]

Thanks for the opinion,A-Fish.

I do believe that AP will be a awesome addition to the boat.

I had looked into this a couple years ago and gave up since i didnt know

anyone with it to see how they worked.

I am going to buy it soon,(ap14r)

Later,

GTR

[GTRIEM]

WHOOPY!

FedEx delieverd the AP today-guess I need to get the drill out.

GTR

[GTRIEM]

I have an email in to simrad but havent heard back yet.

Does anyone know if the compass is water/weather proof?

not sure if i can put it on top of dash under windshield or if i need to

get creative with my fishtape and reaching under the floor skills.

Thanks,

GTR

[GTRIEM]

AP is in and working.

everything went great.

just need to get on the water now.

thanks for your input and help.

GTR

[A-Fishy-Anado]

George

Did you mount your compass on your dash? I mounted mine as low as possible to limit the range of movement in rough water. I have 4 live wells on the boat and sacrificed one for an x-tra battery bank and the compass which put it at about the water level. The more that compass moves....the harder the ap is going to work! I just assumed, when installing, that if you are fishing in the troft and the boat is really rocking, your ap is REALLY going to get some O.T. the higher it is mounted.

[GTRIEM]

George

Did you mount your compass on your dash? I mounted mine as low as possible to limit the range of movement in rough water. I have 4 live wells on the boat and sacrificed one for an x-tra battery bank and the compass which put it at about the water level. The more that compass moves....the harder the ap is going to work! I just assumed, when installing, that if you are fishing in the troft and the boat is really rocking, your ap is REALLY going to get some O.T. the higher it is mounted.

Na, I decided that the C/L of boat was what to shoot for.

So i pulled some compartments , drilled some holes and made a bracket and got it up under the center console seats.

Now my arms look like i lost a fight with a kittycat-i hate fiberglass.

Nice clean install. Couldnt have went better...thats not "normal" around here.

The unit does not say how much amp fuse to use...any ideas? got a 7.5A on it 'cause i had it.

GTR