Saginaw Bay Perch/Walleye Q & A.

[Walleye Express]

Post taken from my fishing board and the answer to it from my DNR buddy.

Before I get started, just let me say I am sorry if I offend anyone. Here is the thing that has been eating at me. Working at Pine River, there have been a ton of guys fishing for perch off of Palmer Rd. You get some guys that come in and say they are nailing the nice perch. Funny thing is when they show me, the nice perch are five to six inches. There are guys keeping their limit of these. But, you go on these web sites, not so much this one but michigan-sportsman, and read people b**** about how there are no big perch left. They blame it on the commercial fisherman. When these are the guys that are out there keeping these small perch. I am sorry, but there isn't much of a fillet off of a six inch perch, you are better off cooking it like a smelt. Now, here is the question. How can there be bigger perch when there are a hundred guys keeping small perch? One hundred guys keeping their limit, that is 5000 perch that will never grow up.

Now, I understand that the commercial fisherman set a lot of nets. But don't they have the right to make a living too? Most of the guys that do this have grown up doing it and have never done anything else. And right now, they aren't doing very good do to all of the walleye out there. That birings me to my next point. Maybe the fact that there are so many walleye has to do with the decline of perch also? And maybe the perch are declining because they now have commorants and Lakers chasing them, or the water is down and they have no place to spawn. Now add fisherman keeping small perch, and what you have is no perch left.

I believe that a size limit needs to be put into effect. Maybe 7.5-8 inches. Sorry this is so long, but I just needed to vent. I personally like catching big perch, I only caught maybe 15 through the ice this year but I had nothing smaller than ten inches, and one that was 14.5. And I will tell you what, bringing that big perch through the hole was very exciting.

Answer I recieved from my DNR biologist buddy after sending him the post.

This post/vent raises some good questions. First I agree that keeping large amounts of small perch can compromize the abundance of large older perch in some systems. In a few systems (not Saginaw Bay), keeping over abundant small perch can promote better growth of those perch left behind, but that's not the case here.

There are several things happening with perch in Saginaw Bay right now that is setting up this situation. The yellow perch fishery is at some of its lowest levels we have ever measured. Both the sport and commercial fisheries are in the same decline. Neither fishery is causing this situation in my opinion and instead both are suffering right along together.

Ever since alewives disappeared from Lake Huron, both walleye and perch have been experiencing enormous reproductive success in the bay. Alewives fed upon newly hatched walleye and perch fry each spring so their absence has made for much better reproduction. This is why we are enjoying so many walleyes today. Walleye densities are returning to their historic proportions and this is a success story. However, alewives (or more specifically thier juveniles that used the bay as a nursery grounds) also made for a ciritical buffer against predation for yellow perch. Without the alewives there, the abundant walleyes (and many other predators) are feeding on the young-of-the-year yellow perch.

Our present working hypothesis is that lake herring historically served as that same buffer in the bay but they have not so far returned in the absence of alewives. There are many other prey forms out there in the bay but it seems like for us to have both perch and walleye (and certainly historically we did have both) we need a very abundant prey form from the main basin of the lake. The answer is not to want alewives back but instead to want lake herring to recover. The DNR is exploring options for trying to encourage that to happen.

I think that we have so few large perch because we have so few perch to begin with. I agree that a 5" or 6" perch is too small for harvesting. Protecting these young perch with a regulation might help and is worth considering but there are so few to begin with (compared to the numbers we used to have in the bay) that I am not sure it would result in a significant improvement of the situation. They just mostly seem abundant right now cause they are crowded in near shore for spawning.

No easy or immediate answers for the perch situation in the bay. In the mean time, try to enjoy some of our fantistic walleye fishing.

[Adam Bomb]

Dan, do you think the predation is really that high on Y.O.Y perch? Reason i say that is for all the walleyes i clean in a year, more often than not the prey inside, if identifyable, is normally a shiner. Thats not to imply that i never find any perch, it just seems like i find ALLOT more shiners in walleye than any other form of forage....And this winter i was finding small white bass in some of the walleyes...I even caught a whitefish that had eaten two of these bite sized white bass. I think this is a good sign as we defintiely have a great population of white bass in the bay. Maybe the increase in the predation of white bass will create that buffer zone again and the perch can begin to flourish like they once did.

I love the size limit he suggested. I think it would help the fishery allot by protecting those smaller fish. I think a reduced bag limit wouldnt hurt either. I would also like to see them stop netting until the fish are done spawning. It just doesnt seem right to net when allot of the big spawners are congregated and in such a vulnerable position. But of course, with so many other factors, only time would truely tell.

Very interesting read. Thanks for posting that.

[Walleye Express]

I was really hoping that the gobies would take the place of the missing alewives. But if that were totally the case, I'm guessing you'd never see another suspended walleye while trolling the Bay, because as you know gobies are bottom dwellers and feeders. But being you still do, and sometimes in mass, they are there feeding on something and I'm guessing they are not YOY perch to any big degree. Usually the YOY anything stays close to shore in the weeds hiding from all types of predators and feeding themselves on very small organisms and invertibrates. But I do know that the Saginaw River fills up with small perch during both the spring and fall and that they do get hit hard by the migrating walleyes. Many of these spring YOY perch never make it out to the weed beds to hide and grow, in much the same way the YOY walleyes never did all those years because of the alewives. If I had to guess, I'd say our new and growing Smallie populations are taking as many YOY perch as any of the wallleyes do. Those bass are less selective and are a more widely dispersed predators then anything swimming in the bay IMV.

Edited April 1, 2009 by Walleye Express

[anthonyyost]

Maybe the D.N.R. will have to start planting herring and alewives:confused:

[Walleye Express]

Tony.

The DNR started planting Herring last year in Lake Huron. Only about 6000 for their first trial plant, but they are trying to learn better how to rear and plant them.

Edited April 1, 2009 by Walleye Express

[anthonyyost]

A little off the subject, but I joined the Grand Rapids chapter of the Michigan Steelheaders this week, and they had a fellow from the D.N.R. as the guest speaker, and he informed us that the D.N.R. has not been able to find any cases of VHS in the state over the last year. I thought that was interesting.

[Adam Bomb]

Thanks for your thoughts Dan.

anthonyyost,

I doubt theyll plant any ales, as theyre one of the reasons for the downfall of each species. The walleye have rebounded, hopefully the perch can too in their absense.

If the statements on VHS from the DNR are true, that is truely great news! You didnt happen to catch if he meant all species or just for trout and salmon throughout the state?

[anthonyyost]

He was talking about all waters