Salmon Limit Increased

[Paulywood]

Thank you for taking time out of your valuable schedule to assist Fisheries Division and the Department of Natural Resources in our request for your opinion of the proposed change to a Statewide fishing regulation to increase the Daily Bag Limit (DBL) for salmon in the Great Lakes. This proposal included increasing the DBL from a maximum of 3 to maximum of 5 fish, in combination with other trout species. Your input is highly valued and we considered each response in our formulation of the final recommendation. We heard from nearly 300 interested citizens and approximately 70% of those responses were in favor of increasing the DBL for salmon to 5 fish per day.

The proposed rule change to allow for up to 5 salmon per day (no more than 3 of the 5 can be brown trout, lake trout or steelhead) was discussed at three monthly meetings of the Natural Resources Commission. The Michigan Charter Boat Association and about 30% of the survey responses were not in favor of increasing the DBL for various reasons. Each comment that we received along with the discussion we had with anglers presented legitimate points of view, regardless of opinion. Because this regulation does not have a major biological impact, we feel that alternate views are important and that the decision should be primarily based on social considerations. On December 10, 2008, the proposal to increase the DBL for salmon in all public waters, in combination with other trout species, was approved and will become effective April 1, 2009. However, this regulation change incorporates a new management tool that provides an objective evaluation that will allow the Department to modify the bag limit for salmon if fishing success and catch rates changes significantly.

Fisheries Division staff spent a considerable amount of time assessing the comments and concerns submitted by you and we used those comments in the development of a suitable proposal to move forward with a regulation change. A proactive approach (attached) was detailed in November that evaluated the catch per effort of Charter anglers (fish caught per hour) for Chinook salmon over a 22 year period, and assessed Charter anglers catching 3 or more Chinook salmon per day. Using our established data from mandatory charter boat reporting for Lake Michigan, baselines were established for catch rates (0.165 fish per hour) and angler success of catching 3 or more salmon per day (13.1%) which represented "breaking points" based on real data where the DBL could be changed.

Currently both of these benchmarks are being exceeded, which means that catch rates and angler success is high. Under this new proactive approach, both of these benchmarks will need to fall below their baseline values to change the regulation (decrease the DBL back to three). If just one of the indicators drop below the baseline, the regulation will remain in place for a 5 fish DBL in combination. Likewise, if the regulations revert back to 3 fish (meaning both falling below baseline levels), it will take both benchmarks to improve beyond their respective baseline values in order for the Department to change the DBL back to 5.

This tool gives the Department the ability to be more proactive, providing opportunity for annual review, and implement regulation changes as needed using this predefined management tool. When fishing is really good and salmon abundance is high, the 5 fish limit would likely be in effect. Conversely, when fishing is really poor and there are perhaps not as many fish, the limit would revert to 3. The Department will have the ability to make this assessment and consider a regulation change each year based on that years fishery data.

[1mainiac]

Cool that will hopefully cut down on going after lakers to fill your bag. This is something i had discussed with GLF Mike that would have a effect on tourny bag limits if passed should make for a fun year on the water next summer. As now we will no longer have to pull up and try to hunt down Lakers to make a box. To me it has always sucked to be on a good school of fish and have to either quit or pull off and go deep after Lakers to finish the box. Yes I know you could try for Steelhead or Browns but for me Lakers are always easier to seperate from the others due to their colder water life style.

[bluedevil]

Because this regulation does not have a major biological impact, we feel that alternate views are important and that the decision should be primarily based on social considerations.

How can 2 more fish per person NOT make a biological impact? I don't know the numbers but I would have to guess that this would increase the harvest per year dramatically.

Look at it this way, on average us weekend warriors have 3 person's on board and during the peek of the season in august and September I have seen well over 300 boats in a port on a single day. Just crunching numbers here but lets say each boat has 3 person's on board. Thats 900 souls. If all 300 boats limit out with todays limits that is 2700 salmon, with the increase that would jump to 4500 salmon, a difference of 1800 fish. Granted there are alot of variables, like some boats would not get there limit, but you get my point.

Don't get me wrong I love catching more fish but I think we would see the affects of this in a couple years. Besides I end up giving most of my fish away cause I can not consume my last limit before my next trip.

Nick,

May I ask were you got this information??

[Priority1]

An argument can be made for both sides of this issue, just like the three rod rule. Personally, as long as the total number 5 doesn't change, what takes away from one species will add to another. Another point would be fuel savings. A sportsman will be a sportsman. We all have to have a conservative view when it comes to any of our game fish. Limits are just that. If everyone onboard catches 3 Kings, I'm a happy camper. Many tournaments give bonus points for Lakers, Steelhead, and Browns. When a sluggish Laker counts more than a feisty King, I think it dishonors this worthy species. One thing the 5 fish rule will do, is allow you to keep dead shakers, and even some bigger Kings that would otherwise have to be farmed, and end up as Seagull food. If I spend the morning on the pond, and have 3 Kings per person, I'm NOT going to try very hard to fill up. JMHO

[Walleye Express]

IMV, even though I only chase salmon on the rivers is. If we were talking about a fish that lived 10 to 15 years in the ecosystem, naturally reproduced in high numbers and had to live (say 5 years or more to do so) then I would have some reservations about keeping/killing more per man/per day. I'm positive these number and the new reg were all figured and considered into what adult salmon the DNR see's and takes eggs from at all the harvest weirs every fall. A move like this most likely will bring more fishermen into the sport via charters and/or with new fishing boats. All of course improves license sales. And if the resource can be more utilized at this time by this move, I'm for it. What I'm not for is the new 3 rod law. Not concerning the boats but the shore or piers. Can't wait to run into the guy on the pier with 6 of his kids along and 21 rods set out.

[mattmishler]

What I'm not for is the new 3 rod law. Not concerning the boats but the shore or piers. Can't wait to run into the guy on the pier with 6 of his kids along and 21 rods set out.(walleye express)

call i can say is reel fast

[1mainiac]

Well I see it this way since Salmon are non native fish brought in to control a non native Alewife problem which they did we have 2 choices for the future. Continue to reduce or eliminate stocking them or increase bag limits. You notice they put maintaince levels in the rule which means they can adjust the limits as needed similar to to what they do with deer. Monitor the population and the success rate and adjust the bag level to meet it. The big advantage will be that guys who are compelled to fill the box every trip will no longer have to target other fish like the Lakers and Browns and Steelhead. The odd thing is we mostly brought them in to wipe out Alewives but in the process built a solid sport fishing industry to the Great Lakes. Like it or not the high cost of fishing is cutting deeply into the number of guys on the water even at the tournament level nearly every event last year had less than expected turnout. Even the combat fishing had less pressure the last couple of years. I can remember when you could walk from boat to boat and had to allow up to a hour to get thru the channel. We used to put down lines in the channel cause you were not going to get thru anyhow so might as well fish your way out and in. Not once did I get bottled up at Muskegon this year I was able to drive thru and go fish every trip. Most of the time I was out this year I would say 30 to 40% less boats. And if you love catching them and can't eat them all try releasing them. There is no rule that you have to bring home a full box every time just like you don't have to shoot every deer you see.

[GLF]

I like the idea of a 5 fish limit. I think this is a step in the right direction. I would rather see them harvest to many salmon and still have a fishery, than to not harvest enough and end up like Lake Huron. Maybe this will help bring back some of the bait fish. I realize there are other factors that are affecting the bait fish population. The last 2 years, it seems the size of the fish on Lake Michigan has gotten smaller. Too many predators and not enough prey.

This will also make it easier for people who can not distinguish the species very well. Now all WE have to do is count to 5.

[Priority1]

Even the combat fishing had less pressure the last couple of years. I can remember when you could walk from boat to boat and had to allow up to a hour to get thru the channel. We used to put down lines in the channel cause you were not going to get thru anyhow so might as well fish your way out and in.

Combat fishing or not, it never takes me an hour to enter or exit any harbor. I will give and take and try and pick a path through the madness, but bottom line, no one has any business blocking a harbor mouth. The combat fishermen know how to get out of the way when a freighter is coming. We all have to get along, but some of these goof balls think it's their God given right to set up and fish a harbor mouth, even if it impedes others from using the harbor. That's why a horn is required on our vessels. Two years ago a friend ruined a $600 prop trying to avoid some lines in the AuGres harbor. It's much easier and cheaper to unwind fishing line than to replace a prop. This particular harbors channel extends well past the pier heads. The cans are not in place in the early Spring.

[fishsniffer]

i watched dirty jobs the other day and watched them literally count thousands of dead salmon after spawn...i dont see how a couple more fish would have a big impact on the fishery...and that was just in 1 river

[1mainiac]

Frank the last couple years have not been bad but I remember what it was like at times when everything that could float was in the channel. Hell I have seen fistfights between boats and everyone stayed in their own boat they were that close.

[tgafish]

You beat me to it Nick. Got the same e-mail. I was happy to see it pass. I'd rather give us a chance to control the population than have mother nature do it like she did in Huron:help:

[Walleye Express]

Hey Frank.

You'd love Hoyles/Linwood beach marina then. Channel is about 30 feet wide and theres always 2 or 3 bass fishermen working it's edges somewhere along it's 1/4 mile long stretch. And when the dredged channel stops at the last bouy buddy, she really stops. Goes from 6 feet to 3 feet right now. So the best bet is to get up on plane in the channel and plane out. I've recieved more then a few one finger greetings from those "Bass-Holes" as I go by. :no:

[Priority1]

Hey Frank.

You'd love Hoyles/Linwood beach marina then. Channel is about 30 feet wide and theres always 2 or 3 bass fishermen working it's edges somewhere along it's 1/4 mile long stretch. And when the dredged channel stops at the last bouy buddy, she really stops. Goes from 6 feet to 3 feet right now. So the best bet is to get up on plane in the channel and plane out. I've recieved more then a few one finger greetings from those "Bass-Holes" as I go by. :no:

Dan, Is that channel posted NO WAKE??? I haven't launched there in a couple of years, but I think it was posted before. Most of those bass boats don't have a lot of freeboard. Like I said I'll give and take but I'm not going to put the P1 on the rocks.

[Paulywood]

Matt, I received the email from the DNR. I responded to the survey they put out earlier in the year. I think that the Steelheaders chapters have also received these emails. I don't see this significantly impacting the fishery. I can only think of a handful of times per year that I would have been able to take the extra fish last year. And I think the majority of "weekend warriors" are in the same boat. The few times that I have been able to do this I kept fishing and targeted other species. Then I had to release kings or coho (in the spring) that I caught. This will end releasing these fish, some of which I'm sure died. Also, some people will make fewer trips to the lake if they are able to put 5 fish in the box for each fisherperson. The majority of people who opposed this change were charter captains. Now they will have to stay out longer and won't make as much money. The boat traffic for salmon fishing has reduced drastically the last few years. Last year we went out of Muskegon on Memorial Day and the parking lot at Snug Harbor was almost empty when we got there at 7 am. If you talk to marina owners and bait shop owners they will tell you that business has fallen off dramatically. The DNR is going to monitor the impact yearly and can adjust it if there is a problem. Also, many of the other states already have the 5 fish rule, it will help cut down on confusion when fishing near state lines.

[Walleye Express]

Dan, Is that channel posted NO WAKE??? I haven't launched there in a couple of years, but I think it was posted before. Most of those bass boats don't have a lot of freeboard. Like I said I'll give and take but I'm not going to put the P1 on the rocks.

It's No-Wake now for the first 3 bouys going out, about 1/3 of the channel. After that, just marker bouys. If they were fishing within the no-wake zone that would be fine. But many set up right at the end of the channel. My ourdrives are almost 3 feet down to begin with. Those first few yards after I "hammer down" and the boat squats down another foot or so are what I worry about at the end of that channel. And if you got a strong off-shore wind the risk is doubled. I won't even talk about coming in and dropping off plane in 3 foot of water. That' when you can really tear some stuff up. I've heard we have about 4 new charter boats coming from Lake Michigan this coming spring to Linwwod beach for the walleye. Hopefully all this snow will translate to more water in the Lakes.

[Nailer]

How can 2 more fish per person NOT make a biological impact? I don't know the numbers but I would have to guess that this would increase the harvest per year dramatically.

Look at it this way, on average us weekend warriors have 3 person's on board and during the peek of the season in august and September I have seen well over 300 boats in a port on a single day. Just crunching numbers here but lets say each boat has 3 person's on board. Thats 900 souls. If all 300 boats limit out with todays limits that is 2700 salmon, with the increase that would jump to 4500 salmon, a difference of 1800 fish. Granted there are alot of variables, like some boats would not get there limit, but you get my point.

Don't get me wrong I love catching more fish but I think we would see the affects of this in a couple years. Besides I end up giving most of my fish away cause I can not consume my last limit before my next trip.

Nick,

May I ask were you got this information??

We are not to bad of fisherman. Not one time last year did we limit out on salmon. (there are usually 4 of us on board) We did come close a few times.

The reality is, most do not get there limit now. This will help the charter captions and the few that have only one or two on board.

[1mainiac]

Frank I used to fish out of Grand Haven on a good day the run from slip to the lake would be close to 45 min all no wake. Put a couple hundred boats in the channel and you might just as well drop lines you ain't moving. I have seen down riggers on a canoe and guys in paddle boats in the channel it was not pretty. I can launch from Fruitport 3 min from my house but is well over a hour to the lake minimum roughly 14 miles of no wake zone.

[mattmishler]

wow is it nice to be 10 minutes from launching to running

[Priority1]

It's No-Wake now for the first 3 bouys going out, about 1/3 of the channel. After that, just marker bouys. If they were fishing within the no-wake zone that would be fine. But many set up right at the end of the channel. My ourdrives are almost 3 feet down to begin with. Those first few yards after I "hammer down" and the boat squats down another foot or so are what I worry about at the end of that channel. And if you got a strong off-shore wind the risk is doubled. I won't even talk about coming in and dropping off plane in 3 foot of water. That' when you can really tear some stuff up. I've heard we have about 4 new charter boats coming from Lake Michigan this coming spring to Linwwod beach for the walleye. Hopefully all this snow will translate to more water in the Lakes.

Dan, justenough (Capt. Dick Donovan) is slipping there for a month or so. We should have another couple of good years.

[justenough]

That is correct i will be there for the months May-July7th? As of right now they gave the slip next to you Dan:grin:As far as I know there two more going from Manistee for around the same time then its back to Manistee in July.

Thanks for the heads up on the channel

[Walleye Express]

That is correct i will be there for the months May-July7th? As of right now they gave the slip next to you Dan:grin:As far as I know there two more going from Manistee for around the same time then its back to Manistee in July.

Thanks for the heads up on the channel

Not a problem Dick. Feel free to give me a shout about any fishing or dock related particulars before the season starts. The spoon program was on fire last year in about the same timeframe you plan on being here. #20 Jets, or Big Jon Minni Discs, teamed with Scorpion Stingers or Spoon harnesses. My best action was on Rattle Tot's with scorpion sliders. The transtition from Lake Michigan to Saginaw Bay should be a smooth one for you.