Need Fish Finder advice

[Boltman]

Hello Gents, I need some advice, you see we just started fishing this summer late, and I nee to purchase a Transducer, I already have a Raymarine C80 onboard and would like to hook up the fishfinder mode. I'm looking into a tHRU Hull Transducer specifically the Airmar B164 tilted ray tranducer. I know it's Thru hull and I'm not afraid to install it either, I'm certainly Mechanically inclined for this job, what I want to know is....Being that I'm just beginning this fishing pahse of my life, do I really need a fish finder, or just fish out where all the boats are? Or just set the down riggers at my desired depths and hope for the best? This is why I need You guys Help....I trust what the pros say and this is the site I perfer to listen to and take advice....

I plan on buying a set of Big Jon Captains Pack gold down riggers early this spring,I've ebbn researching these also and they give me the most holders per rod HOLDER HOLES THAT ARE ALREADY IN THE BOAT, I don't want to add more holes either.

[Paulywood]

I would say that if you are going to spend the money to be out there fishing you might as well give yourself the best chance to catch fish. A good fishfinder can greatly increase your odds. As fas as riggers, I have a pair of Big Jon Pro Tournament's and love them. They have the autostop feature that works great. Good luck.

[1mainiac]

Welcome Boltman

The fishfinder is a nice addition but not as nessacary as many think I assume you allready have a depth sounder on the boat so you know how deep the water is. Water temp is the key to what fish are likely to do and where they will be. Less than 20% of the fish I have caught have been marked on my fishfinder. 70 - 80% of my fish were caught when trolling at the 40 -50 deg temp range with the most in the low to mid 40 range. The Speed and Temp probes are in my opinion the single greatest improvement in the nearly 40 years I have fished the great lakes. Speed at the lure lets you know what the lure is actually doing at that depth and temp lets you know what fish will most likely be there. I listen to the radio and see where the pack is and many times will make a pass thru to see what they are doing. But all to often they are fishing marks that turn out to be inactive suspended fish but they are seeing marks and continue to swap lures and pick away at them. Years ago I was one of the guys who fished the pack now I am quite happy to drive on thru and go find my own fish. This summer when the cold water moved in my wife and I went out one morn to find 40 or more boats right out front and they were getting some fish we drove thru setup in 46 deg water about 15ft off the bottom in 50FOW and headed north we limited out in under a hour and had the water to ourselves. This is something I have done countless times over the last 3 years since buying my Depth Raider.

As to Down Riggers they all seem to work and each has it's plus's and minus's. I like my Big Jons and have had them for years upgraded motors last spring and they are almost to fast. I also have a set of Fishlanders that I like I moved my probe setup top one of the Fishlanders as the desent speed was causing me issues with the Big Jons. However if it had not been for the deal the guys from Fishlander made me at the show I would have came home with a pair of Scotty's. My only issue with Cannons is I like the tip up booms but I see they now have a tip up mount available. I still sometimes wish I had bought the Scotty's as they had auto stops which would make reseting faster and more consistant. Any rigger changes in the future will be to either add auto stop or to replace with units having it.

[boomerang]

ive looked myself at the B164, are you aware that that transducer is the size of small dinner plate??? the thing is huge!! and sure with 1Kw output you could see a pimple on a alewives butt at 1,000' but it seems that is good for deepsea fishing and OVERKILL for great lakes salmon, if your fish finder puts out 1 kW you do need a transducer that will be able to take that much power, what it the power output of your Fishfinder?? this one will take up to 600W and is a bunch smaller and 1/4-1/3 the cost

http://airmartechnology.com/airmar2005/ex20/RMProducts/ElectCat.asp?ProdID=36&Man=All&PageNo=67

to be honest a speed/temp probe is way more important, but for me i like to "see" my downrigger weights and know where they are running and a good FF and transducer will make this possible, HERE IS MORE READING ON TRANSDUCERS

http://www.raymarine.com/Default.aspx?SITE=1&SECTION=2&PAGE=594#CBM2453

[Paulywood]

I haven't had a speed-n-temp sensor before and the fishfinder was a great help. If you have one that is capable of marking bait balls and the thermocline they can be a huge difference in a good day or a great day of fishing. Especially if you already have the unit and only need to buy the ducer. It looks like Boomerang has some pretty good info on transducers. Good luck.

[GLF]

Yes, you need a fish finder. Just because there is a pack of boats, does not mean they are catching fish! I fished several times this year inside and outside of the pack and did very well, while the radio chatter from the pack indicated the fishing was not good.

I would probably set up the fish finder before I went for a speed-n-temp probe. A good fish finder can be adjusted to show the thermocline. There are lots of successful fisherman who do not have a speed-n-temp probe who do very well. I added a speed-n-temp probe to my boat this year. A speed-n-temp will take a lot of the guess work out of fishing. You can ask on the radio what the down temp is, and usually someone will answer.

I am also running the Big Jons Pro Tournaments with 15lb balls. Spend the extra $50 and pick them up.

On a last note....a fish finder also gives everyone something to look at when the fishing is slow.

[Boltman]

S-N-T probes, now here's something I know nothing about, can you guys come up with something more? It amazes me thats there's so much to know about fishing!!!!

[Boltman]

GLF why the tournments over the captians packs? Why do you prefer them over one?

[GLF]

GLF why the tournments over the captians packs? Why do you prefer them over one?

The Pro Tournaments are faster than the captains pack, can handle a bigger ball, and come with an auto shut off.

[Boltman]

I was wondering what size ball I'm going to need, I thought 10lbs would have been enough, but I see your using 15lbs, to get to the deeper deths I assume?

I will get the Pro tournments for sure, better to have too much then too little, right?

I have to mention, I'm fishing off a 2006 Sea Ray Sundancer, not a fishing boat, but a boat as such.............thanks for the advice.

[Paulywood]

The Pro Tournaments are faster than the captains pack, can handle a bigger ball, and come with an auto shut off.

Yep, that's why I like them. They look just like the Captain's pack but have a bigger motor and come with the auto shutoff. I think that you can add the auto shutoff to the Captain's Pack but the motor is smaller. I really like the Big Jon Riggers. As far as S-N-T sensors, the options are Moor Subtroll, Depth Raider, Fishhawk, and Cannon Speed-N-Temp. I heard that Cannon is discontinuing their unit. The Moor has been around a long time and is very reliable. One of the things that people don't like is the analog dial for speed, although I don't think its a big deal. The Depth Raider is almost the same as the Subtroll but it has a digital display for both speed and temp. The new Fishhawk seems to be much better than the old one. There were a few problems with the old probe. There have been a lot of discussion about all of these units on the board, feel free to do a search. Some of the differences are probe costs, and how the signal is sent. They all seem to be solid, it comes down more to preference than anything. Good luck and feel free to ask questions, it seems to bring up a good discussion and that's what the board is for.

[1mainiac]

My Big Jons are older Senior models with new Speed Rigger motors making them some where between Speed Rigger and Brute models I have had 25 lb balls on them and they don't slow down. My fishlanders on the other hand have smaller motors and are much slower but they run 15lb balls just fine. The Big Jons have 50 amp motors and will put the ball down a 100 feet in seconds and if you are thumbing the spool on your reel it will be smoking. The Fishlanders only draw about 7 amps and go up and down nice and slow. But make sure your battery system can keep up with the units cause a dead battery makes them all manual down riggers. The charging system on my old outboard could not keep up with the Big Jons and the never worked well. So I had them rebuilt before putting them on my new boat this year. When the tech at Big Jon got them he called me to verify what was wrong he explained the amp draw to me and offered me the motor upgrade for the same price as the rebuilds. Very Cool people to deal with.

[GLF]

The Pro Tournaments have a bead that gets crimped on the cable. There is a prox switch inside the last roller that is the shut off. When the bead contacts the prox switch it shuts off.

All of the S-N-T's except the Fishhawk, come with a coated down rigger cable that you have to put on your rigger. I was not sure what the affect of crimping a stop bead would have on the coated cable, so I went with the Fishhawk S-N-T.

[Boltman]

You guys are GREAT..., what can I say, so GLF you think I need the Pro's? Keep in mind I'm not the fishermen you guys are,I am certainly a part timer when it comes to this, but Salmon Fever has me bye the short hairs for sure. I don't mind spending the extra money for the better motor, maybe it will alst longer if I do get the pros as well, Ok decsion has been made, I'll order the Pros and see what we can do with them. I want to thanks you all, for your advice you have given me, it has diffently helped me in my choices,I can't wait for the spring, so I can order the riggers, if I can only make it through the winter.... so many days to go... My God I hear we have some Snow coming today... Well we need a large snowpack so the lake levels will go up more, makes it all better for all of us to get the boats in....

[1mainiac]

Boltman keep in mind the list of things that can improve your fishing is endless as are lure choices. If you upload pics of your boat and info on it along with some ideas as to where and when you will fish the guys here can help you narrow down what you need. Many of us in here have been doing this for decades as such there is pretty much a agreed list of things you should have. However other than being fishing nuts we don't all agree on how or what works best. Ask any 10 of us what our pre dawn go to setup is in early July and you will likey get 10 differant setups that all work. But in those 10 differant setups you will find a similar pattern in all of them. Glow spoons, Flasher Fly combos, the kind of water we want to fish in ect... We all have developed patterns that work for us and our boats. Many times I leave the dock with a plan and by the time I am out where I plan on fishing cond have changed so the plan has to change.

So perhaps you should post info on your boat and where you want to fish then filter thru the list of responses and see what you need to have. Also chk out the charter boats that fish in the area you want and see what their equipment list is. This will help you narrow down the list.

Tight Lines

Jim

[Boltman]

Thanks Jim, I will upload some pics of the boat later on tonight..