Probe setup ?

[1mainiac]

Anyone else having problems with releases and tangleing on the probe rigger? I have tried several differant release setups this year with limited success. Yet I still have trouble with tangles at the probe that I have not figured out where they come from it looks like the probe spins and grabs the line I have ran the release above the probe below the probe and off the ball I also tried just running a stacker release off the wire above the probe that was worse. Yet when I remove the probe I have no problems with the rigger and when running above 60ft no issues. But since the warm water moved back in and I am back to searching deep water the tangles are back dragged a 5lb king to its death last night found it when I pulled lines to change lures. I have got at least 7 fish this way this year and have lost a few lures as well. Any ideas?

Tight Lines

Jim

[Priority1]

That seems strange, especially line tangles that are on releases above the probe. It's difficult to phantom how that could happen.

[LongLine]

If it happens with the release above the probe, I can only think of two ways for line to wrap around the cable:

1) It’s happening above water & you’re not seeing it. That has happened to me if my release is not free spinning on the cable. The probe rotates out of water, especially with swiveling the rigger forward /backward. The release and line can wrap around the cable.

2) Do you put the boat in neutral with the probe down & line attached, such that the cable goes vertical? The line could settle lower than the probe, in the water, while the cable is trying to untwist itself hence spin the probe. Again, with the release not free spinning.

[salmonquest]

This is a very interesting post to me. I don't know what probe you run but I just installed the cannon snt this year. As stated in a previous post I have had a greater number of tangles this year and most have been on the probe rigger. I even put a 12# ball on that one. I tried running the big jon band buster but this is between the termination and the probe so the coated cable I run to the probe tends to get tangled. I mostly run a stacker about a foot up. I pulled a 5 lber on a jplug for an hour this morning. I can't think of any rationale for these tangles either. I'm baffled as well. The only thing I can imagine is there is a lot of blow back with the probe and maybe it's rising faster than the line and getting up into it. It seems unlikely to me but I can't imagine what else. I always check it just below the surface to check for those tangles. I haven't found any.

[1mainiac]

I have never put my boat in neutral I check my lines every time. I have a Depth Raider setup I have tried heavier balls I usually set them down with the drag set so the rods are bent over all the way down I run fairly fast so I think blow back is the biggest issue but if I am hooked above the probe with swivels above and below the probe WTF is up. Again it only happens when running deep I may try a set of the shark weights or pancakes but they don't fit in my cradles.

Tight Lines

Jim

[LongLine]

Does this happen with any particular type of lure more than another? I.e spoon, flasher, plug? Does rate of desent have anything to do with it? I.e. lowering ball fast vs slow?

[1mainiac]

I never run flashers behind the probe so not sure if that would make a differance. But plugs or spoons short leads or long has not made a differance. Desent speed is one thing I have not considered the riggers are older Big Jon senior units with new Speed rigger motors which basicly makes them the same as the new Brute model with fiberglass booms but they do haul butt down or up but probably close to 250ft a min going down so perhaps it is spinning on desent. If this turns out to be the issue kinda blows the bigger faster stronger theory being better.

Tight Lines

Jim

[LongLine]

So if you're going down to 100 Ft, do you go down all at once or in stages? Obviously, I'm suggesting your go down in stages, but don't blow the motor/brake with constant stop/starts. Bigger, stronger, faster is great on the way up provided the boom can take it...sucks on the way down though.

[1mainiac]

Well I may try the start stop idea but to be honest I am usually in haulbutt mode when setting lines. Why else buy the badddest fastest riggers you can get I suppose I could move the probe to my Fishlander riggers they are real slow. If I had known how slow they were I MIGHT NOT HAVE BOUGHT THEM but perhaps they might be better for the probe. I may move the gear over to them this week.

Tight Lines

Jim

[TheKingfisher]

I have a Sub-Troll and use the Scotty Pincher releases off my 14lb ball below my probe. The Scotty release I use, have about an 8inch leader between the cannon-ball and the pinch release. So this more then clears the probe, even when just setting and the line is straight in the water the probe can spin all the way around and not hit my line.

I've always run these releases and never thought about it untill I read your post. But I've not had a tangle in my probe yet.

I have the last few weeks been runnig large flashers off this rigger as well, it's been real productive.

[fishsniffer]

i use the blacks release above the probe..i do get wrap arounds sometimes when im running deep and i bring the ball up or doqn..i think more up..ie when im down 100ft and decide to go deeper or shallower..i get a hit and the things all of a sudden wrapped around the cable

[1mainiac]

I ran the Blacks release's for a while last year with limited success. I modified a set last night so they can't open and am going to try running a Cannon release behind it. I figure the worse that could happen is it might open and I could lose a Pinch release but if it works it will allow the release to not spin with the probe ball or cable. I am also going to move the probe setup to my outside riggers as they are slower and I might even be able to watch the temp change as they go down. since i don't always use them I could just send the probe down without a line on it to test temp and current. I had liked having the probe on all the time but may just get used to using it more as a test instrument than a running part of my gear. After losing one I think I can learn to be happy geting my data and putting it away unless things change

Tight Lines

jim

[LongLine]

Jim - Did you have a chance to get out? Did it work better on the slower rigger?

[1mainiac]

Ran it all weekend with no issues the slower rigger and the modified release worked great. Did not find many fish but no equipment problems. Thanks for all the great advise from all.

Tight lines

Jim

[Nailer]

I bet that fast down was the trouble, I have had no tangles but, my riggers are some old Walker electric ( they are very slow).

[Dragon Fly]

I have a Sub-Troll and use the Scotty Pincher releases off my 14lb ball below my probe. The Scotty release I use, have about an 8inch leader between the cannon-ball and the pinch release. So this more then clears the probe, even when just setting and the line is straight in the water the probe can spin all the way around and not hit my line. I've always run these releases and never thought about it untill I read your post. But I've not had a tangle in my probe yet. I have the last few weeks been runnig large flashers off this rigger as well, it's been real productive.

King Fisher: I am considering buying a sub troll. I was wondering how you get the probe back up to the surface as you bring up the dr.wire when you get a fish on? I hate to have anything dangeling in the water if I have a fish next to my boat. Do you have any trouble with extra blowback with the sub troll? Is your probe connected to the dr. ball by the 8 inch leader you mentioned and then your mainline connected to the downrigger line from a release about 3-4 feet above the ball?

Thank you- any help is greatly appreciated.

Denny

[1mainiac]

Pretty much all the probes except the Cannon hook up the same. The probe attaches to the DR cable and has a short cable below it that you attach the ball to. Usually a lower test line between the probe and ball so it the ball hangs up you only lose the ball but if the probe comes off you lose the entire setup. In 3 years I have lost 2 balls and 1 copmplete setup. Not cheap by any means but still the best investment I have made as a single purchase to improve my fishing rate. While I still like to see a mark on the fishfinder now and then I now run my unit in split screen mode and often have the chart as the larger portion. The fish alarm will tell me to chk the screen to see what depth the mark is at but the probe tells me if I am fishing a temp they are likely to be active at and if my lure speed is correct.

Also I talked with John Williams today and was informed they have a new control box for my DR that will give me auto stop and speed controll. I may try it out next season if my wallet permits as the down speed on these Brute equilivant riggers is smoking fast probably approaching free fall speed. Often causeing the setup to spin on the way down and making it neccessary to hand adjust my depth at times. Also with a 15lb ball it will slingshot the ball at you as it clears the surface making it tough to stop correctly when resetting lines in a hurry so speed control and auto stops will be a great improvement.

[fishdawg]

this is how i run my Sub Troll Probe

Walker release (same as Blacks) then 8" length to my clip to my Probe

then I run a Scotty rigger snubber bewteen the probe & the ball... sometimes Ill run a release off the ball or I will use the top Walker release, depends on what Im running & such of course....

[1mainiac]

Final report after moving the probe setup to my Fishlander riggers nearly all problems went away. I modified the Black's releases so they cannot open and ran Off Shore medium tension releases behind them this solved several issues as I can now change balls and probe setups without changing the release. I talked with Big Jon about some of these issues and they now have a new control for my riggers that will give me adjustable speed control up and down and add auto stop to my riggers. I may get this installed in the spring if I can budget it in. I have also heard a lot of good reports on the shark cannon balls and may try and get a set to see if they really help with the blow back since I tend to haul butt when trolling. I saw a few late reports of guys going way faster than me and doing real good on Steelhead after the Salmon run so have to get the blowback reduced. Anyhow it is Jan 1st HAPPY NEW YEAR and it is time for me to get the season budget pinned down and adjust my wants versus needs list for the upcoming season.

Tight Lines

Jim