1mainiac

Ok but just for the record we have fished together 3 times and had a great time all 3 but you ended the first in the ER and the last with a broken pole. So get a rabbits foot or something or at I hope you have used up your bad luck for the year.

As a former ice fishing lunatic may I suggest a setup I used to use for early and late ice fishing. First Snowshoes help a lot even cross country skis are better than plain boots. Second I had one of those plastic barrell's with a removable lid that I kept my stuff in with a rope attached to it. When I moved around on the ice it was tied to me and I would drag it behind me. It did several things it carried all my gear and left my hands free it moved on the ice and snow fairly easy and if I went thru it gave me a huge bobber and anchor to get back out. I guess it would have also made finding my body easier if all else failed. It has been over 20 years since I ice fished living down south for a bunch of the time so no ice to consider and warmer winter when up here made me stop going. I am starting to get the bug to do it again but be carefull. Tight Lines Jim

nick here is a site that will help with the knots. http://www.animatedknots.com/index.php?LogoImage=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com Palomar, Uni, Dbl Uni, Albright, Worlds Fair are pretty much my go to knots. I snell my fly rigs and most of setups I tie my self. I build most of my own stuff for Flies and meat rigs with Gamma Flouro leader and Owner hooks I even make a lot of my J Plug harness's. So over the years I have become a knot fananitic But I can tie some sweet knots most of my Snell's look as good as machine made and are built with bettter material. Tight Lines Jim

Boltman keep in mind the list of things that can improve your fishing is endless as are lure choices. If you upload pics of your boat and info on it along with some ideas as to where and when you will fish the guys here can help you narrow down what you need. Many of us in here have been doing this for decades as such there is pretty much a agreed list of things you should have. However other than being fishing nuts we don't all agree on how or what works best. Ask any 10 of us what our pre dawn go to setup is in early July and you will likey get 10 differant setups that all work. But in those 10 differant setups you will find a similar pattern in all of them. Glow spoons, Flasher Fly combos, the kind of water we want to fish in ect... We all have developed patterns that work for us and our boats. Many times I leave the dock with a plan and by the time I am out where I plan on fishing cond have changed so the plan has to change. So perhaps you should post info on your boat and where you want to fish then filter thru the list of responses and see what you need to have. Also chk out the charter boats that fish in the area you want and see what their equipment list is. This will help you narrow down the list. Tight Lines Jim

Oh and one other line I have been looking at is the Musky master it is a hollow braid like lead core. I use it for loop connectors on some of my fly fishing setups.

Thanks still got a while till I need to respool them I know they all have Pros and Cons I lost some gear 2 years ago working out my Power Pro program. When you lose a few dipey setups learning it is not cheap I lost several setups before a friend pointed out that using a Trilene knot was causing the braid to cut itself as it tightened. I have played around with the Worlds fair knot the Uni and the Palomar since and have pretty much stuck with the Palomar. Now just gotta keep my friends from free spooling them out and my dipsey program works great. Keep them suggestions coming need input data. Tight Lines Jim

I think I am going to change out the Power Pro on my diver rods as it is a couple seasons old. Do you guys really think the Fireline is better in 30lb, once I changed knots I have had no issues with Power Pro? I started with 300 yds of Power Pro on each rod and with cutting it back and retieing for 2 years am not sure how much is left. So while the Power Pro discussion is going I will throw this out and add the man's prayer I am a man but I can change if I have to I guess. What is the best 30 lb braid for a dipsey rod? Pro's and Con's. I have a habit of once something works for me I stop changing it so I worked out the issues with Power Pro a couple years ago. But I know a lot of guys use the Fireline is there much of a difference or is it just user preference?

My Big Jons are older Senior models with new Speed Rigger motors making them some where between Speed Rigger and Brute models I have had 25 lb balls on them and they don't slow down. My fishlanders on the other hand have smaller motors and are much slower but they run 15lb balls just fine. The Big Jons have 50 amp motors and will put the ball down a 100 feet in seconds and if you are thumbing the spool on your reel it will be smoking. The Fishlanders only draw about 7 amps and go up and down nice and slow. But make sure your battery system can keep up with the units cause a dead battery makes them all manual down riggers. The charging system on my old outboard could not keep up with the Big Jons and the never worked well. So I had them rebuilt before putting them on my new boat this year. When the tech at Big Jon got them he called me to verify what was wrong he explained the amp draw to me and offered me the motor upgrade for the same price as the rebuilds. Very Cool people to deal with.

Kinda what I was thinking Nick I have 4 rigger poles to re line this year as 3 seasons is enough on the line. Since I have the big spool of 14 lb I figured I would save a few bucks and run it I always used to run 14 early and 25 late in the season. But the last 2 years I just left the line on I think I did better in the spring with the lighter line.

Ok Mike I never let that much out on my full cores between the core and the board. So you are right there by the time you got it all out you would have nearly nothing left with mono. I forgot that you use the sliding board setup just remembered you had trouble with wear on the board. I would rather use 55 series reels for my full core setup but had the 45's so have made them work. I have never been spooled with them but have been close a few times. Perhaps I should consider going to braid but I most likely will stick with mono. It works for me and honestly I am considering going way down on poundage and plan on running 14 lb on my rigger poles this year. I have plenty of 14 lb Stren hi Vis green if anyone needs any. I have a huge spool left roughly 33 miles still left on it and want to use it up.

True Mike and I have used Power Pro for 3 seasons on my dipsey rods with no issues since I changed knots. But weren't you having problems with your board pins having excessive wear this summer? My point is using mono for a backer on core works and solves nearly all of the release problems. I think way to often guys start with to small of a reel and use braid to make up the size differance. I have yet to meet the fish that can't be caught on 20 or 25 lb test mono on Lake MI. I have however seen several times when you run out of line cause you chose a small reel and had to run less line to get it to fit. Not much sucks worse then having a fish run and seeing the spool become empty. Oh I forgot to mention my Power Pro is backed with 25 lb mono. What can I say I love mono it works and it is forgiving.

Welcome Boltman The fishfinder is a nice addition but not as nessacary as many think I assume you allready have a depth sounder on the boat so you know how deep the water is. Water temp is the key to what fish are likely to do and where they will be. Less than 20% of the fish I have caught have been marked on my fishfinder. 70 - 80% of my fish were caught when trolling at the 40 -50 deg temp range with the most in the low to mid 40 range. The Speed and Temp probes are in my opinion the single greatest improvement in the nearly 40 years I have fished the great lakes. Speed at the lure lets you know what the lure is actually doing at that depth and temp lets you know what fish will most likely be there. I listen to the radio and see where the pack is and many times will make a pass thru to see what they are doing. But all to often they are fishing marks that turn out to be inactive suspended fish but they are seeing marks and continue to swap lures and pick away at them. Years ago I was one of the guys who fished the pack now I am quite happy to drive on thru and go find my own fish. This summer when the cold water moved in my wife and I went out one morn to find 40 or more boats right out front and they were getting some fish we drove thru setup in 46 deg water about 15ft off the bottom in 50FOW and headed north we limited out in under a hour and had the water to ourselves. This is something I have done countless times over the last 3 years since buying my Depth Raider. As to Down Riggers they all seem to work and each has it's plus's and minus's. I like my Big Jons and have had them for years upgraded motors last spring and they are almost to fast. I also have a set of Fishlanders that I like I moved my probe setup top one of the Fishlanders as the desent speed was causing me issues with the Big Jons. However if it had not been for the deal the guys from Fishlander made me at the show I would have came home with a pair of Scotty's. My only issue with Cannons is I like the tip up booms but I see they now have a tip up mount available. I still sometimes wish I had bought the Scotty's as they had auto stops which would make reseting faster and more consistant. Any rigger changes in the future will be to either add auto stop or to replace with units having it.

Hotdog 71 I did not mean to imply that I don't like Power Pro it is a good line as is the Fireline. However the Fireline I have used in the past was more of a flat braid and the Power Pro is a round braid this means you have use differant knots or the Power Pro will cut itself in half as it works. I also had trouble with Power Pro till a friend showed me to use a Palamar knot or a Uni knot. Since I changed knots no more problems. Tight Lines Jim

yep nearly all of my rods are Mono only have 2 braid poles for dipsey's and use dacron backer on them have only been past the knot a couple times and held my breath till it was back on the reel. Same setup on my wire rods 600 ft of wire with dacron backer and try to keep the knot on the reel. The other 13 rods on my boat are all based on mono my copper and core rods start with mono and end with mono and all 6 of my rigger rods are mono only. Braids are nice but I have little use for them in my trolling setups except for the dipsey's but run a snubber and mono behind them. Mono will absorb the shock of a big fish changing direction with braids and wire if the drag is set wrong something will break and fast. The one thing I see a lot of is guys using line counter reels on core I have a couple myself but they were setup for other things and had core added to them later in life save the money spent on line counters and buy a bigger reel my full core setup has 250 yds of 25 lb mono then the full core and then 20 yds of 20 lb mono on a Okuma 45 it is full. My copper rods are similar setup on Okuma 55 reels also full. Most guys are too concerned with running hi test lines I have caught huge fish on my 8 lb test Steelhead rod landed a 25 lb king in the White river 2 years ago with it what a battle. In the spring I often run really light lines I often laugh when I talk to bass guys and they try to explain why they need 50 or 60 lb braid to catch a 3 lb fish as it is about the same as us using a warn winch and 600 lb cable to catch a Salmon. Read the rod blank and try to balance your tackle accordingly you will be suprised at how much fun it is to catch fish when they are on even ground. Pretty much all rods are rated for mono line so when it says 10 to 25 lb line that is what it means if you want it to work correctly to light of line the rod action will break the line and too heavy a line will break the rod and the rods rated for 30 to 60 lb line look like pool cues with eyelets. Something to think about anyhow. Tight Lines Jim

This is a 2 part problem first braided line does not work well in releases it tends to slip a bit and damage them over time cutting grooves in them so as you work thru the waves it slowly cuts into the release making sharp edges witch cut into the line. The second part is braided line does not stretch so all of the tension is transmitted to the release and the only flex in the setup is the rod itself not a good setup in my opinion. The only reason I know of to use braid with core is if the reel is too small I like big reels the only 30 series reel on my boat is a wire diver setup that was given to me. All of my core setups are mono backer to core then mono leader mostly 25lb backer and 20lb leader this year I started using Flouro clear for leaders and like it. If you are going to use braid for a backer you have to find a release it can't eat up like a blacks release. Then you might have to modify the board to work with them. Tight Lines Jim

Very cool

Sorry Nick I thought about going down to the sub but thought maybe you were running late so stayed put. I parked up by the trolley pickup at 7:45 and talked with a couple guys who were heading out they both said it was really slow last few days. So I left about 8:00 and went and got some breakfast. Mike called a little bit ago and said the pier was packed so they were headed to Whitehall to fish the south pier. I am trying to decide if I want to burn the extra gas and drive up and join them so I am gonna wait and call Mike back in a bit and see if they have a decent spot and room for me to fish before I drive up there.

got up this morn and went to Coast Guard station Talked to all the guys there no sign of PAULYWOOD. Thought maybe he was running late so set up and fished till about 7:30 Did not see anyone out on the south pier there were some guys heading out but I was getting cold and several I talked to had not got a Steelie in several days. Decided to go get breakfast instead. Will be back this afternoon to fish with Mike and Terry. I caught and released 8 fish only one legal and zero hits on bait all on spoons. Guy fishing next to me said he had fished Muskegon for 35 years and tried every bait you can name with no success he said they just won't hit bait.

Well based on the age of your boat unless someone has replaced the pump I would say about 40 psi at 1.5 gpm that is what the FW pump in my 89 Quest has. Other than Ag and special applications nobody built much in 12 hi vol or hi psi pumps untill the last 10 years or so when the RV's really picked up with the baby boomer crowd who demanded them to be more like home. Even so the average RV still has a 45psi max 2.5 gpm shurflo pump high end pumps run between 4.5 and 7 gpm with up to 65 psi max. Here is a link to one of the better pumps. http://www.shurflo.com/pages/RV/rv_product_sum/rv_sum_docs/potable/5900-0201.html And this is probably the most common rv pump http://www.shurflo.com/pages/RV/rv_product_sum/rv_sum_docs/potable/standard_water_pump.html This is one of my favorite pumps they run forever and give a good balance of psi and volume http://www.rvupgradestore.com/browseproducts/Aquajet-RV-Variable-Speed-Water-Pump.HTML Like I said earlier if you need help or want to buy one let me know will get you one at my cost. (cheap) Tight Lines Jim

Mike if your boat is like mine and has a pump for the FW sys you could just tap into it after the pump with a Tee and run a line back for the hookup. My head is the same setup pump out only and a resevoir on the toilet. I have 3 small bait tanks and a large fish box all with drains but no actual livewell so they are all used for tackle storage. We had a portable presure washer on display all summer that used a rechargable battery and had a suction hose for a pickup here is a link to it if you are interested I will get you one at my cost. http://www.nomad2go.com/pressure-washer-washing/nomad-18-volt-cordless.aspx They are pretty cool and can run off your boat batttery if you want to hook it up. Not a full power pressure washer but will do a great job of clean up. Tight Lines Jim

The only problem with tieing it to another system is making sure you put in chk valves so the pump can't suck air from the other unit and vise versa. Once properly done it would work but keep in mind the chk valves will reduce flow. Also you need a suction strainer somewhere in the setup to avoid plugging the pump. My wash down system has a strainer screen at the pump which needs to be cleaned all the time or it will barely pee a small stream. Since I trailer all the time all I use the wash down for is to get the blood off the deck while fishing mine has a thru hull in front of the engine with a valve on it so to use it I use a boat hook to reach in and open the valve. Since that is a PITA I often just rinse it off with a bucket but I don't ever leave the valve open. If I were to design a boat it would have no thru hull fittings below the waterline I would mold in a water pick up in the transom that entered the boat above the water line and use one large pump with valves to send the water where you wanted it some what like a sprinkler system. Then the wash down switch would turn on the pump and open the valve to it, the same would apply to the toilet and live wells and bait tanks. My wash down pump is 2.0 gpm at about 40 psi rated but it takes close to 4 min to fill a 5 gallon pail so it actually puts out about 1.25 gpm and I don't know how much psi it builds never tested that but most of the time give me a 6 pack and I can put out more of a stream. Maybe I need a new pump but I work with these pumps all the time and not many of them have very much output. The high end systems in 500k and up coachs use 5 to 7 gpm pumps rated at 65 psi but now you are going from a 80 dollar pump to a 300 dollar pump. Call me if you need any help Mike. Tight Lines Jim

Glad to hear it Mike gonna play around with a couple ideas this week will let you guys know how they work and if you can grab me a couple of them spoons. I looked around a couple places and can't find any over here. How did Jay do with his Buckshot glow and broken rod? Tight Lines Jim

Met Jay and his friends about 9:45pm by the Coast guard station set up next to Jay and began catching fish had landed 6 or 7 when I got one legal actually in the mouth not just the right end of the fish. We had caugth a lot of fish when the crowd thinned out and we moved down in front of the station. My luck changed there I got a few more fish but Jay really got into em probably outfished me by close to 3 to one after we moved and the keepers were piling up in the cooler. I snagged bad on the bottom and stepped back a few feet to straight pull and break the line or get it loose and in the dark did not see the tip section of my rod slide down the line into the water. So there I stand with just the back half of my rod grabbed my flashlight and looked to see if I could see the tip and fish it back out nope it was gone. So I went and rigged my spare rod and started fishing again I got a couple fish right away including another one hooked in the mouth but the hooks were on the outside of the mouth so after thinking it over back it went. Then Jay tries to haul one up without the net and broke his rod tip off but he kept on fishing with it anyhow. I ended up with close to 15 fish caught and a couple keepers lost one Kastmaster and half of my fishing pole. At least it was one of my cheaper poles just a 59 dollar Walmart Trophy Tamer 10 1/2 foot rod so if any one catchs the front and does not feel like giving it back I will sell you the back half. The cooler was close to full last time I looked in it so they will be busy cleaning fish in the morning. The 4 guys next to us took home a big bag full I think they said they had 24 of em legal caught so the fishing is still fairly good and tons of fun. I left about 1:30 and Jay was getting ready to give up when I left. Another great night on the pier everyone had a great time and the only damage was lost fishing gear. I had a great time. Tight Lines Jim

Thanks for the update Mike I will add First Aid kit to things I need to bring along when fishing with Jay. LOL He was very carefull last night and the only blood spilled on the peir was from fish we had a great time. Oh yea there was a lot of fish blood in our area which is always a good thing to see. I love it when I have to wash down the blood on the deck while we are still fishing on my boat. Tight Lines Jim

Mike I have a spare pump I need to test but if it still works you can have it. The drain would probably work but I would not do it. Years ago on our 25ft Carver we just tossed the suction line over the side with a weight on it it was crude but it worked. And no chance of a leak the last thing I want is another spot for a leak my boat has wash down built in but the valve is always closed unless I use it. If I was going to mount it permantly I would go out high above the water line and run a pipe down to the water for a pick up might not look as nice but it can't sink your boat if it fails. If done neatly hardly anyone would ever know it was there. Tight Lines Jim