Walleye Express

He would not like me netting either Adam. Always head first for me as well. It's all about timing the forward momentum of the fish, and quick, deep sweeping thrusts IMV. Can't think of a single specie of Fish of any kind that swims backwards even a fraction as good as it does forward. Touch them anywhere from the dorsal fin back with any part of the net while netting from the back, and you'll never match the speed of the fish's thrust and speed out the front of the net, versus pushing the net ahead fast enough against the current in the river or against a moving boats drag pushing back against the bag of the net.

Thank's guys. Figuring out and catching these fish yesterday was a blast for sure. The fish we found were in isolated pockets on steep ledges, hanging in 16 to 18 FOW along these ledges, trapping or pushing baifish up agains't them. Catching these fish was/is a lot tougher then just finding them and then straight line trolling like we do on the bay. Either controlled depth jigging or precise contour trolling along these breaks with about 2 to 2 1/2 colors core, caught most of the fish. Ya know, jigging has always been my favorite way to catch river walleyes. But only getting a shock from an electrical outlet compares to the jolt of having walleye of this size nail your lead core rig while your holding the rod.:D

Me and Reel Fishin found some real dandys in the Saginaw River this morning. Big fish was 25 1/2 and the small one was 21. Caught them on everything from KnuckleBall Jigs and Gulp to trolling lead core using #5 Raps.

A good net man is as valuable IMV as anything else connected with fishing. Knowing when to net and how to net is a learned skill very much under rated and appreciated by people who think it's the easiest part of fishing. I'm not saying I'm the best net man, but pictured below is a double on walleyes I just finished netting. And have on rare occassion netted 3 walleyes in the same net. I attribute most of my netting skills to the 1,000 or so butterflies and flying grasshoppers I chased and caught with my dads landing net when I was growing up.

Welcome Bruce. So tell us, was it the refined walleye sections that finally landed you as an advertiser? :D

An interesting fallow up. I would agree about the night vision of the walleyes,. Being from the West side I fish Muskegon lake after dark, and have seen big walleyes cought on 1 lure/color over another. It depends on water temp,clarity, barometric pressure,speed,lure/color choice and water conditions. I think the schools of bait fish available (and their size) at the time is a factor also. The above mentioned night conditions by Dan were right on and I fish 4-6 different lure/color combo's at the same time and only have 1 lure catch fish, Then switch every rod over to the hot lure and all catch fish. We go out the next night same above mentioned conditions same program and not catch a fish until we change things up color,baits,speed....ect. The best lures for me are as follows...... Rapalas,Smithwick,Reef runners, Hotntots. Not in any favorite order. Last December-Mid January we were doing best on 3 ways..... Smithwick (clown) and stinger spoons(pink/orange) trolled @ 1.5/2.0 mph and cought allot of BIG walleyes. The year before that if I cought1-2 fish on the mentioned program I was lucky. I have allot of buds that fish Muskegon lake and we all run same program after dark that is the hot method going. Al. The 3 way rig being successful after dark kinda surprises me. Especially rigged behind such a shallow diving lure as a Rouge. What's the program when using this rig? How long of a lead from the 3 way swivel is both the crank and spoon? How fast is your trolling speed when using this rig? Does it vary (or need to) when fishing different depths? I thought about trying this on the Saginaw after dark, because of the several distinct sizes of the baitfish I see in the river. Using both the body bait and the spoon at the same time can cover two baitfish sizes, and hopefully duplicate the size they are zeroing in on that night. Capt. Dan. Capt Dan, It all depends on the area,depth,contour,break I'm fishing. I normally run a 4'-6' leader off of the snap swivel to the 3-way. I then a use a 6'-8' leader on the bottom (deep diving crank bait) and a 3'-4' leader on top (stinger spoon). I try to run the top 1/2 the length of the bottom so it doesn't tangle that much if at all. The Smithwick (deep super rouge) I can get down 16'-18' with 140' behind the board The Rapala( Deep husky jerk) I can get down the same with same line out as Rouge. The Reef Runner (Deep diver) will go allot deeper @ 140' back about 26' to be exact. The speed really is determined by the walleyes and the water temp. I normally try 1.8-2.5 mph and adjust from there. This method is a hard way to fish but is very productive when doing so. I have been doing this type of trolling for awhile now and it has worked out, But I have lost many rigs this way too. If your fishing any type of structure,reef,bars,breaks......ect you've really got to be on your toes and watch your electronics. Al.

Don. I really enjoyed our little chat on the phone last night, I'm glad you called. I think we as charter boat fishermen and MCBA members have to stick together and help in any way we can. I know some are saying that their inspections were easier and different then this case. And that the difference between each inspector can vary. But we cannot stand by and accept that some of us are given a free and easy pass, while others in our organization are put threw the ringer for BS reasons. All inspection have too be fair across the board or the whole system will get tougher for all, or taken over by yet more burocracy. And I say if Don has a fair chance to stop this kind of crap through a law suite, we should get behind him both in our support and maybe monetarily if need be. Keep us posted on the prognosis of the case Don.

Question Don. Did they come back and re-check the work after it was done? And if so, how fast after the work was done did they come back? And I don't know in what capacity I could help you, but I sure feel like doing so in some way to get this crap stopped right now. I'm going to at least write a letter to the MCBA and voice my concerns about this. I encourage anybody else who are MCBA members to do the same.

Answer to my inquiry. Dan. They need to get together and decide what type of question they want to ask or show up to the MCBA meeting in October and ask there own question. If they are MCBA members and are having problems they should go to: http://www.fishmcba.com/aboutmcba.html and contact the MCBA Director for there area, see map on home page: http://www.micharterboats.com for area map and send them a email so they can represent them. If they are not members of MCBA, then they have no bitch, they may be just a far left independent that should contact there Michigan congressman for help.

Overall, I've caught more walleyes at night both on the bay and the rivers using plain colored lures. My best nights on the Saginaw Bay are calm, clear nights during the first quarter moon. My best cranks on the Bay are large #18's Rapala's, fallowed closely by #14 Husky Jerks. Best clear night colors overall is the Natural Black top/White/Silver belly in the #18, and the Blue/Silver/Orange bottom in the husky. Cloudy nights are Firetiger and the Orange/Gold and Chartreuse/White. All these are ran (most nights) very slow and very shallow, as slow as .08 and as short as 18 Feet behind the In-Line planer boards. Walleyes can see well in dim light, not only because they have lots of rods in their eyes, but because of the tapetum, a reflective layer of cells behind the cones that reflect light back toward the cones and that give the fish its characteristic creamy white glow. Walleye can see nine times better then the human eye in their environment and are built to forage at night. Along with that, their eyes (like a pike) are on top of their heads, so they naturally look up to see their prey silhouetted against any dim light on the surface. There are times when Glows work well though. I use them sometimes on the river at night, when the river is off-colored from run off. My favorite glow killer is a special #7 and #8 Green scale color/Red hooks, made especially for the Gander Mountain stores. My other favorite that catches them when the river waters are cleaner is one that Rapala don't make any more, called the Silver Shiner.

http://www.michiganmuskiealliance.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5128

Another place to aire grivences would be at the annual MCBA meeting this October in Grand Rapids. The proper DNR people will be there to hear such things. I'm also working on getting a MCBA rep to both accept and possibly submit or read any grivences like this at this meeting to these people. If he agrees, I'll post his address here. Not sure it would carry the same weight, but it sure might if there were more then a few.

Brian. So what is that Okuma reels address? I may be in the market for 10 new reels in the next summer season. I still like my BP Gold cups reels. But the 250 yards of junk line I need as filler, to fill the spool up to the filler mark is a pain in the azz. Looking for quality, smaller diametor reels with less line capacity.

Mike. Here's a quote that might answer your Muskegon Lake question from MR. Muskegon Lake himself Mark Martin, when he did a fish chat for our members on my fishing board. For those who want more knowledge about both the bay and the Saginaw River walleyes, heres the link to both fish chats with Mark Martin and Gary Parsons. http://www.saginawbay.com/appiesboard/viewforum.php?f=20&sid=548ce794160ff618e4dbcb2a4281f85d [Message] capt.dan -> Fish Chat: Last Question: Capt: Dan Question. Mark. Many of our younger members are not old enough to remember that before your Pro fishing career, that you guided at night on the Muskegon Lake for trophy walleyes. I'm curious to know what your biggest Muskegon lake walleye was over the years, what your most successful cranksbaits were during that time and if you still guide at night on the Muskegon Lake? [Message] Mark Martin -> Fish Chat: The biggest walleye I caught was when I was twelve years old fishing at night just before Thanksgiving. It was a fourteen pound, one ounce eye. My best lures was when I fished with Grandpa and Dad were homemade imitation looking Rapalas. When I did most of my guiding I used pretty much number thirteen floating Rapala's with glow eyes and glow tails and prisom tape along the lateral line of the lure. That's my favorite and most successful lure. I've caught many other walleyes on Shad Raps, spoon bill rebels, bombers, and many other lures including hopkins spoons.

Derek. Adam did cover most of the basics very well. To cover everything would take a book size post. And your chances and success will be both better and easier if you fish Saginaw Bay versus Muskegon Lake for walleyes. Not saying Muskegon is not a fantastic fishery, but it's best fishing opportunities and productive windows are very much narrower then is Saginaw Bays. And keep in mind that walleye are very much a different animal then are salmon. Fishing walleyes during this colder then usual summer on the Bay stayed as productive longer in 5 FOW as it was in 25 FOW. Not really anything that revolutionary, but something that surprised a lot of us. Walleye un-like salmon are not locked into certain forage types nor any certain temperature zones, where most of their feeding takes place. They are however forage driven, but can and do feed comfortably on any forage living in 36 to 86 degrees water temps. This opens up the whole Bay and the entire water column during the summer to catch fish in. And you do not necessarily need to use Meat/crawlers and rigs, even though this method performed better this season even for me. You can use a variety of spoons and certain crankbait's virtually from spring into fall and catch walleyes on them in all depths. Doing so IMV reduces the equipment and many of the learning curves associated with live bait rigging, and is much easier and user friendly to beginners. Many of my best seasons ever were when trolling cranks from early May to late August, never once changing the lures I initially put on. The only variable was the speed and depths I trolled them in. When talking crankbait's, on the Muskegon Rapala's rule. On Saginaw Bay both Rattle Tots and Hot-N-Tot's rule.

Keep in mind that you are legally responsible for your boats wake and any damage or harm it causes to any person or property. Also know your boat and it's parameters well enough to know what speeds it throws the biggest wakes. I don't know how many times we've had a big boat coming at full speed towards us throwing a 1 foot wake, but then gets near us and slows down some, to then generate a 3 foot wake. The really sad part about this is most people associate going fast with bigger wakes. I've gotten the finger many times in my Jet Boat on the river knowing that by being on plane my boat only throws a ripple. Slow down and it throws a real roller.

Don. I'm very sorry for the BS and loss of business you had to endure. I had the same experience. It took place on my very first dry dock inspection in 1996 from a new/untrained DNR guy on the job. Said my whole transom was rotten after he pushed an ice pick through a few layers of fiberglass from the inside. $5,000 later, the transom was found to be sound and the guy who fixed it said (if he wanted to) he could push an ice pick through any part of a sound/new boats hull. Later dry dock inspectors laughed at what he the new DNR guy did and how he did it. Seems the blunt end of a hammer or other tools should be used to press and check for strength of inner hulls, not a sharpe ice pick. I still don't find it funny at all. But I want to thank you for this post, as next year is my first scheduled dry dock inspection under the new rules and DNR contracted inspectors. I will stay very aware from where these so called experts are from, and see what I can do about any before and after dire diagnosis. One more thing. Did you report this inspector, along with his and your repair mans findings to the Coast Guard, DNR and the MCBA? If not, please do so for all our sakes.

Welcome Dave. Sounds like our resumes are almost the same. I'm also working under my 5th Coast Guard license renewal and caught my first salmon below Tippy Dam in the fall of 1969. Guided on the upper PM for 15 years till 2001 and still occassionally run trips in your next of the woods (Indian Bridge down) for kings out of my Jet Boat. You'll find both knowledgable and helpfull people here on this board willing to share, without the snide remarks, belittlement and enuendo that so many others major in. And I know a man with your experience can only strengthen that knowledge base and our group.

I see (finally) that there is some rain in the forecast for the ludington area for tonight and Monday morning. And to even be talking about the lower PM salmon run this late in September seems very weird to me. But I think with this rain, it may bring a few more, and probably the last of the river runners up the river. And I'd like one final crack at them this Tuesday or Wednesday. So my question is, are there still a lot of fish in Ludington lake on the graph or jumping in the harbor?

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Fished out of Huron about 6 years ago and limited both days we were there. 24 fish with the smallest being about 4 pounds with 5 or 6 over 8, and 2 real monsters over 10. A trip of a lifetime for sure. But those BIG ones make for better pictures then they do table fair. I'd take more pictures, do more releasing of the hogs and keep more of the smaller fish if I went again.

And thank's everyboody for all the Kudos you've all given me threw this summer season. It may go unsaid sometimes, but they mean a lot to me. I kind of hang around this and only a few of the other subject titles on this site, so probably miss giving a lot of you salmon fishermen the "at a boys" you all derserve.

Yes. I've already revamped my web page and announced that I'l be using my smaller 18 footer for two men charters only, to extend the season a little longer on the bay. The big boat is already out and winterized for the season. Hell, this spot today was over 18 miles one way from LBM anyways. Only optimum weather conditions like today would make it worth running that far. And how many mid September limits can you remember? I've only had two and they both came in the last 2 weeks. If this was to become the norm, I'd leave my bigger boat in longer.

Rattle Tot with a 1/4 crawler on the front.

Still working on the walleye adrenalin hype that Scott "Fishinmachine2" caused 3 days ago on our/my fishing board, with his 35 walleyes and 10 keepers post, the brother and I launched at Gambill marina at 9:30 am this morning with high hopes of doing the same. What I was worried about most was the NE winds and the 4 to 7 footers that beat the crap out of that West shoreline all day yesterday and most of last night. And when I seen the water temp had dropped 10 degrees near shore from just a short week ago, it didn't look that good. But oddly, the farther off shore we got, the warmer the water was. We started in 23 FOW between the Saganing and Pinconing Bars. Trolled north and worked the same general area that Scott had for about an hour without a touch. Ran about every kind of Crank I had during that time. Told the brother we need to head in closer to the second break, and troll just off that 11 foot break that drops into 17 FOW. Well, when we hit 17.8 feet and like Scott said in his post 3 days ago, all hell broke loose. My closest board to the boat jerked back and went under. It was a double. And I mean 2 walleyes on the same Rattle Tot. Both 14 1/2 inches long. Switched all rods over to Meat Tots and we boated 26 walleyes, 3 cats 1 sheepshead and 2 jumbo perch in the next 3 hours, and kept our 2 man limit of walleyes, working that ledge from Bar to Bar with Meat Tot's. An outrageous day for September on Saginaw Bay. Oh, and thank's a heap for the starting point Scott. :grin: