WALRANGER5

In the June 18th Milwaukee Journal Sentinel Dan Egan, 10 fold increase in positive EDNA Asian Carp hits above the barrier. Regardless of where you stand on EDNA I would remind all of you Dr. David Jude only found one Goby in 1990!

From the Seagrant results "Lake Michigan and it's fish are shared resources" I have talked to Dan O'keefe several times, and many others, I did try. Forgive me if I splained it wrong. You cannot solve an invasive species problem by increasing an invasive species. PHD or not, that rule never chages.

The native fishery is restoring, without alewives. I have not brow beaten anyone, on the contrary everyone is having the salmon forced on them, by what appears to be only 580 concerned anglers. Please understand stand, if we lose the alewives, we only lose the salmon , not the whole big lake fishery. If we lose to the Asian carp, we lose the big lake fishery, and the inland fisheries as well. They will spread inland just like the gobies and what they're doing down south. I am trying to help other "anglers" including you.

Nope! Restoring the native fish population, (Perch included) is what we're all supposed to be working towards. According to the experts a diverse native fishery is more resistant to invasive species, they call it (biotic-resistance) in sufficent numbers even zebra mussel populations can be controlled. This alewife survey "too many predators (salmon) will wipe out the alewives" same same, big fish eat litte fish..... The Seagrant 2012 Lake Michigan salmon stocking survey results, paragraph 2 " The primary purpose of the survey, and the presceding outreach to stakeholders, was to evaluate stocking options on a lakewide basis "in recognition of the FACT that Lake Michigan and it's fish are shared resources" This "plan" is to refill the lakes with alewives, which by predation on native larval fish (Perch walleye ect..) destroys the "native shared fish resource" for everyone else. Sorry, that's the way it is. Perch eat all the invasives we have now will eat baby Asian carp all day long, but they also eat alewives. So we can't have any bio-tic resistance to any invasive species because that would affect the predator prey balance on the alewives! Some people dont want to share the resource, it's all about them. Sacrificing an entire natural ecosystem for one fish, is beyond selfish.

With respect, this "save the alewives" survey to avoid a "crisis" only generated minimal interest in saving the alewives/salmon. "Billions of dollars" worth of invisible "stakeholders" either didn't care or wern't there in the first place. Regardless this was a vote to increase an invasive species, (alewives) nothing more.

Only 580 people from all 4 states took the survey, only 271 from Michigan cared what happens to the alewives. This does not indicate "billion of dollars" in interest in keeping the salmon, not by any stretch of the imagination.

Yep, that be it, Thank You Sir for your help.

I'm not that user friendly, pasting wont work for me (My son has tried to teach me). But I don't understand I just google (asian carp spread map USGS) and there's the page with the sites. You can do this for all invasive species. The USGS is tracking them all. Google (common carp control using native predators) lots of interesting studies. If someone can paste them please do. I google most every thing.

Some recent things about the Asian Carp you all should be aware of, your paying for it. please go to asiancarp.us, and find (fishing down the bighead and silver carps) 100% of fish over 16 inches etc... Find Asian carp spread map USGS released 5/24/2012 see what the "barrier" is supposed to stop. The EPA is going to form yet another "advisory" committee for the great lakes thier first they say. The feds admit we have native predators for juvenile asian carp, and can control them,but they have to be abundant. The asian carp are very real, and have all the attributes to to very well here, to think otherwise would be irresponsible. If they get a foothold in Lake Michigan, we have a carp pond deluxe! You may also want to check the recent Goby spread Map USGS, that's just plain sad!

Thank you for pointing out alewife are major consumers of larval fish. Will alewives eat larval Asian carp? Sure if the carp spawn in june when the alewives come into spawn, the other 2 or 3 times they spawn the alewives will be out in the lake, salmon can't survive in the warm spawning areas, so Asian Carp have the advantage, as do the other freshwater invasive species, now spreading across the state and beyond. Growing too big for predators, protects thier females, and they have 20+ years to wait for "the right conditions" attacking or making the near shore spawning areas useless to them (lots of predators, no room at the inn), is our best bet at controlling them. This has been proven many times with common carp. Lack of predators allowed alewives etc.... There is no such thing as a safe level of alewives or any other invasive species. I was asked not to talk about Asian carp, but you asked. If the Asian carp get control of the spawning/nursery areas, it wont matter how many salmon you cut or stock!

Thank you.

Nobody knows how many people took the salmon survey?

Anybody know how many people took the stocking cuts survey?

As you wish. However this is my imput on stocking stratagies. Filling Lake Michigan back up with alewives, by any means, stocking cuts, planting (some are calling for planting alewives) is not in the publics and the lakes best interest, and will be a major factor in whether or not the Asian Carp can thrive in our lakes. Sacrificing an entire Great Lake and connecting waters for one non-native fish, is not what I'd call a good idea.

With respect, the salmon are not worth any billion, let alone 8 to 10. I stand behind what I said. Have a nice day.

Yes Sir, the natural "biotic-resistance" of a body of water is dependant on having abundant/sufficient numbers of predators. They netted off areas and the "predators" wiped out the zebra mussels in a short time. Perch feed heavily on zebra mussels, thus abundant/sufficient numbers..... Perch and Walleye eat shad, baby Asian Carp look dead nuts like baby shad, they will not ask if they're from China, they'll just eat them. Salmon cannot survive in the warmwater spawning/nursery areas, Native fish/predators can. I would point out that the DNR says "once you get an invasive species, you can never get rid of it" yet they just told the whole world, too many predators (salmon) will wipe out the alewives! Having our so called top predator out in the middle of lake Michigan, and only eating one fish, both non native, isn't helping control any other invasive species, because they can't. They have to "balance" all the predators to protect the alewives, this includes native fish. A simple switch to steelhead and Browns, not dependant on alewives, keeps the big lake fishery, yet can co-exist with a healthy native fish population, salmon cannot. We can't control where the asian Carp go, but we can control how many predators they run into, make the lakes useless to them, (biotic-resistance) but any biotic-resistance would affect the alewife/salmon plan, soooooo.... the lake and connecting waters have to be invasive species safe. The proofs in the lake. I'm tired of fishing for leftovers, and I want my grand kids and thier kids etc... to be able to go fishing and not wind up with a carp pond. Google (biotic-resistance native predators) not my idea, fish science, I just agree, but all useless if alewives continue to come first, last, and always!

Guys I'm as tired of talking about invasive species as some of you are hearing it. All we want to do is restore the Perch and Walleye in West Michigan, Lake Michigan. I would much rather spend my time Coordinating those efforts than pointing out the flaws in the system, that wont let us do that. We have yet to ask for money, we only require a permit, the DNR has excuses and no logical reasons to stop us. We want to be proactive with the Asian Carp, and I assure you they are very real, we have native predators for them, the Feds admit this, and can be controlled with predators, none happen to be salmon or trout, and there's nothing anyone can do about that. Get some buddys together take a boat, any boat, go down to Bath Illinois and go for a boat ride, just go for a ride! Then perhaps you'll see, the Asian Carp have already shown us what's going to happen here, if we continue with the "Lack of predators" program to protect the alewives, that protects them all. We have to face the facts, reality. These chat rooms are supposed to be people who care about our fishing resource, forgive me if that's not the case. Sincerely, Tom

The fact is chinook need a minimum of 123 pounds of Alewives PER fish to hit 17 pounds in 3 years, no other fish only salmon. Alewives are an invasive species, that are detrimental to the natural/native environment ecosystem, no matter how you slice it. 123 times x number of salmon times 3/4 year classes, add for size and allow for "extra" salmon from Huron and spawning = A very damaged natural/native fishery. We have to sacrifice, the entire natural ecosystem for one fish, that requires a special diet to survive. Do some people make money off salmon? Yep! Some people are making money off Asian carp, money don't make it a good thing, except for "some" people. The 123 pound rule will never change If we keep the Chinook. We have native predators for zebra/quagga mussels and gobies etc.... but they also eat alewives, so perhaps you can see the conflict of interest, or the major flaw in the alewife/salmon plan?

Please go to asiancarp.us, and find the recent study fishing down the bighead and silver carp. Still 2800 per mile, need to affect small ones to do any good etc.....

Please research alewives before you vote to increase them, by whatever means. Alewives are an invasive species, dependant on our natural/native fishery (predators) be kept low for them to survive. Alewives are also predators of zooplankton and native larval fish. You cannot solve an invasive species problem, by increasing an invasive species.

Run them thru a Perch, you have a nicer little snack1 Run Asian Carp thru either Perch or Walleye, much better than Asian Carp on a shingle!

With respect, The feds admit we have native predators for Asian Carp, and restoring native fish does not interfere with any other asian carp plans. Steelhead and Browns are not native but NOT dependant on alewives, proven in Lake Erie. One fed says the carp can be controlled, but the predators have to be abundant (sufficient) to do the job. (Predator-prey balance-ratio) same same different fish. Predator type only has to be one that eats them, numbers is the key, proven in common carp studies, "stocking of predators essential after removal of adult carp, for predation on young carp" being proven in Illinois as we speak, they harvest adults the ones they miss just reload, sans predators, you just reduced the competition, or predators if killed poison.

With respect, the extinction of all our fisheries are at risk, our native fish have a very real chance at controlling/ minimizing the Asian Carp and the other 180 invasives. Are you willing to risk it all for one fish? Would switching to steelhead/browns really kill you?

They recently found the invasive white perch are increasing and spreading into lake Michigan, i'm sure they are eating alewives as well, (no reason not too) I catch them trolling 7 inch cranks. they also eat fish eggs, alewives don't gaurd thier eggs and they spawn right on top of the invasive white Perch, and gobies as well. How do we reduce these other predators, to "balance" things?

Actually 2015 maybe 2016, I participated in a GLMRIS confrence call, then proposals have to be presented to congress, to vote on, 2020 maybe? The Fed Asian Carp team are non-binding advisory, they have no power to implement anything, (I asked). We have no control over politics or how the carp will get in. We can control how many predators they run into, and thier impact, and make it very hard for them to survive in our lakes. This is basic fish biology, (predator prey balance) does not just apply to salmon and alewives, it applies to the whole ball a wax!